Erratum proposal: Agents movement

Errata issued by the CoE, open discussion of candidate rules for errata, and submissions for the Annual Rules Vote.
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Khamul the Easterling
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Erratum proposal: Agents movement

Post by Khamul the Easterling » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:21 pm

Agents may move from site to site if the new site's region is adjacent to the region of the previous site. As a (Fallen) Wizard player, the regions of Udun and Dagorlad are not considered to be adjacent, but they are if you are a Ringwraith player.
I don't feel that's sensible. Agents do not represent a player's alignment, but are thought as from an either independent power or directed by the forces of Sauron. So, keeping the Gorgor pass closed for agents doesn't seem plausible (Yes I know plausibility is not a valid argument in this game ;)). However, agent movement should therefore not depend on a player's alignment.

My proposal is that the regions of Udun and Dagorlad are considered adjacent for agents movement in all cases.

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kober
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Re: Erratum proposal: Agents movement

Post by kober » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:13 am

Personally, I disagree with the premise. Agents are not creatures: they have a purpose - they're servants of their lords, which brings both advantages and disadvantages. It's absolutely reasonable to assume that Fallen Wizards' agents lack some sort of a permit that allows Ringwraiths' agents to travel through Morannon unobstructed. Thus, please allow me to veto the proposal :twisted:

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Bandobras Took
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Re: Erratum proposal: Agents movement

Post by Bandobras Took » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:35 pm

In MEDM, minions are used as hazards called agents. An agent is a hazard that represents an individual that has been sent on a covert mission by the Dark-lord or one of his Dark Lieutenants. However, not all agents are minions.
Agents, when used as hazards, are not sent by the player playing them, thematically speaking, so the proposal makes sense thematically: agents working for Sauron should be able to use the same movement that anything else working for Sauron gets to.

I'm having trouble thinking up a good gameplay reason for this, though: in what circumstances does one desperately need to move an agent from Udun to Dagorlad or vice versa?
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards correctly. This prompted the backlash erratum that I will link to as soon as I notice it is officially posted. :)

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Khamul the Easterling
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Re: Erratum proposal: Agents movement

Post by Khamul the Easterling » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:44 pm

kober wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:13 am
Personally, I disagree with the premise. Agents are not creatures: they have a purpose - they're servants of their lords, which brings both advantages and disadvantages. It's absolutely reasonable to assume that Fallen Wizards' agents lack some sort of a permit that allows Ringwraiths' agents to travel through Morannon unobstructed. Thus, please allow me to veto the proposal :twisted:
My assumption is that (as you say) agents have their lords, but it doesn't convince me that a lord's agent allows his servant to cross a certain border if opposing a ringwraith, but not if opposing a wizard.

Bandobras Took wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:35 pm
I'm having trouble thinking up a good gameplay reason for this, though: in what circumstances does one desperately need to move an agent from Udun to Dagorlad or vice versa?
Agreed, it's more a matter of principle. However, agents from the south Mirkwood regions need some more turns to reach Cirith Gorgor to attack an army-collecting leader there...

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kober
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Re: Erratum proposal: Agents movement

Post by kober » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:41 pm

Bandobras Took wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:35 pm
An agent is a hazard that represents an individual that has been sent on a covert mission by the Dark-lord or one of his Dark Lieutenants.
The way I read this is that if a player is a Ringwraith (Dark Lieutenant) then the agents in his deck were sent by him. Thus, they have the permit to cross the border.
Khamul the Easterling wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:44 pm
My assumption is that (as you say) agents have their lords, but it doesn't convince me that a lord's agent allows his servant to cross a certain border if opposing a ringwraith, but not if opposing a wizard.
But the ability to cross the border depends on whose deck the agent is in, not on the alignment of the opponent.
CRF wrote:If you are a Ringwraith, your agents may move as if Dagorlad and Udûn are adjacent.

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Bandobras Took
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Re: Erratum proposal: Agents movement

Post by Bandobras Took » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:08 am

Khamul the Easterling wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:44 pm
Agreed, it's more a matter of principle. However, agents from the south Mirkwood regions need some more turns to reach Cirith Gorgor to attack an army-collecting leader there...
Yes, they do, but that's akin to saying that Agents from the Gondor regions need some more turns to influence a Troll-Chief at the Ettenmoors. Totally true, and totally part of their design.

@ kober: That makes no sense; if we follow that logic, then agents in a Wizard vs Wizard game weren't sent by the Dark Lord or any of his lieutenants, which is thematic balderdash. Thus the thrust of the erratum proposal.

I don't believe that erratum should be issued purely on the basis of thematic reasons, though.
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards correctly. This prompted the backlash erratum that I will link to as soon as I notice it is officially posted. :)

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kober
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Re: Erratum proposal: Agents movement

Post by kober » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:20 pm

Bandobras Took wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:08 am
That makes no sense; if we follow that logic, then agents in a Wizard vs Wizard game weren't sent by the Dark Lord or any of his lieutenants, which is thematic balderdash.
Ah, now I got the point of the dicussion - I'm sorry, I was confused :oops:

dirhaval
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Re: Erratum proposal: Agents movement

Post by dirhaval » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:19 am

I see the CRF about Ringwraiths using the Teeth of Mordor for agents.

However, I do not read that movement restriction for agents used by Hero players.
The restriction for heroes is it not for moving companies only. Then such
a restriction was made it was made in the METW guide without agents.

There are such things as double agents :P

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