Time limit during online tournaments

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marcos
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Time limit during online tournaments

Post by marcos » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:54 pm

This has been brought into discussion once more:

http://www.councilofelrond.org/forum/vi ... =17&t=1651

Should CoE take actions into it, and "create" some sort of new rule to implement time limit during online tournaments?
Nknma wrote:Since online gaming is gaining more foothold in the community, I suggest that CoE should consider doing similar universal rules set for online tournaments that we have for regular tournaments. There must be more things than just time limit to consider when comparing live and online circumstances.

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Bandobras Took
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Re: Time limit during online tournaments

Post by Bandobras Took » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:15 pm

I've added my own comment there, but I'll only point out here that time limits are only valid if both players agree to play quickly -- otherwise, one of them can hog the time limit, especially if they're in the lead against a dunk deck, which happened to me once. ;)
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards correctly. This prompted the backlash erratum that I will link to as soon as I notice it is officially posted. :)

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Re: Time limit during online tournaments

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:24 pm

Also commented there, and my point exactly, a time limit in general solves little or nothing and creates additional problems (dissatisfaction and disputes). Time limits are a necessary tool to keep a tournament on schedule, not settle disputes about styles of play. In the preferred situation there wouldn't be any time limits.
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

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Shapeshifter
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Re: Time limit during online tournaments

Post by Shapeshifter » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:03 pm

Why not limit the time for each player's turn instead of limiting the whole time for a game.

My proposal:
A player's turn may not last longer than 20 minutes otherwise that player receives -5 MP for each turn he needs more than this time limit and additionally he may not dunk anymore for the rest of the game.

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Re: Time limit during online tournaments

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:23 am

I think that would create more issues than it would solve Karsten.
"Hey your 20 mins is up" - yeah, but I went to the toilet you know, and that dude asked me a rules question I had to answer, and my dice rolled off the table and I spent 1 minute searching for them, and try CvCC with 15 dwarves, or walking 7 comps around Mordor, while you just have your singular Pallando squat, besides you didn't punch the clock at the end of your turn correctly..."

even though 20 mins is way too generous of course, as that would mean 40 mins per turn, so you'd have a regular 2 turn game.

imo the problem perceived is bigger than the problem at hand. Stalling is mainly an issue just with dunk decks. Time limits mostly with inexperience players.

While we're at it, why not make a rule for talking too much during a game? we know Heiner for example always hypnotizes his opponents by talking them to sleep...or a rule for being too nervous, that's always unsettling, Dominique shuffling his cards in hand all the time, I can't think straight with that going on...

These things should be left to settle between both players.
There will always be style issues, but if your feel opponent is stalling, be a man and say it to his face, if he doesn't respond to your satisfaction, then take it up with a judge.
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

Frodo
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Re: Time limit during online tournaments

Post by Frodo » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:38 am

The idea of time limits on gccg came up many years ago.

During this time, I argued that if we had some sort of time limit, it should not be a time limit per say (because of the reasons already mentioned here), but rather a *turn limit*. For example, for tournament GCCG play, we could set a maximum turn limit at 6 turns per player (maybe 7).

The advantages of a turn limit is that is mimics what some players already do--they play for a while, then if they are both being beaten up in MP, they say "okay, another turn apiece."

However, my suggestion would only work if part of the problem is precisely that: both players getting beaten up in MPs during tournament gccg play, and so the game crawling forward until both decks exhaust three times (or whatever that rule is). If we don't think that this is a significant problem, but rather the problem is players who are actively stalling, then my solution will not work. Can other state what the problem is, exactly?

p.s. the only other wrinkle with my solution is that it eliminates some bizarre decks from competing that rely on getting a large number of turns--like 8--even though these are very fast turns. I know know of one deck that does this, however--the characterless decks that take 15 second turns in the beginning. It's a beautiful deck, but I haven't played it in so long anyway...

Frodo

Jose-san
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Re: Time limit during online tournaments

Post by Jose-san » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:59 pm

Thorsten the Traveller wrote:Also commented there, and my point exactly, a time limit in general solves little or nothing and creates additional problems (dissatisfaction and disputes). Time limits are a necessary tool to keep a tournament on schedule, not settle disputes about styles of play. In the preferred situation there wouldn't be any time limits.
My opinion exactly.

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Re: Time limit during online tournaments

Post by Sauron » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:09 pm

Thorsten the Traveller wrote:Also commented there, and my point exactly, a time limit in general solves little or nothing and creates additional problems (dissatisfaction and disputes). Time limits are a necessary tool to keep a tournament on schedule, not settle disputes about styles of play. In the preferred situation there wouldn't be any time limits.
A time limit solves a bit. I don't know about other players, but I don't enjoy a 3 or 4 hour long game. An ENFORCED time limit would solve this. I often see judges who are unwilling to call a violation to the time limit via stalling, even when the player not stalling calls for a judge. What I see is a lax attitude in enforcing rules.

I know when I play the game I enforce the rules.

Without time limits people tend to get carried away. In my personal protest of this lax attitude and no time limit policy, In the nations cup semis and finals, I will personally be taking 45+ min turns, to show how time limits should be used and enforced.

Jose-san
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Re: Time limit during online tournaments

Post by Jose-san » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:22 pm

Sauron wrote:Without time limits people tend to get carried away. In my personal protest of this lax attitude and no time limit policy, In the nations cup semis and finals, I will personally be taking 45+ min turns, to show how time limits should be used and enforced.
I'm not sure whether that behaviour proves what you intend.

Sauron
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Re: Time limit during online tournaments

Post by Sauron » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:23 pm

Jose-san wrote:
Sauron wrote:Without time limits people tend to get carried away. In my personal protest of this lax attitude and no time limit policy, In the nations cup semis and finals, I will personally be taking 45+ min turns, to show how time limits should be used and enforced.
I'm not sure whether that behaviour proves what you intend.
It proves time limits should be enforced. It's silly that I'm not going to be penalized for taking these long extended turns under the current tournament rules.

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