Lure XIII Program - Discussion

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Lure XIII Program - Discussion

Post by thorondor » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:27 am

during the last few years the program of the Lure event hasnt changed too much. however, i now and then receive requests, if its possible to make a few changes (so it better fits the personal program).

there are always a few things to consider:
- have different types of tourneys at the same time
- 2deck games and tourneys with a larger player pool need more time and are scheduled accordingly
- some tourneys are dependent on a certain tourney organizer, who is available for that tourney only a pertermined spot.

so all things considered, its is of course possible to change things.
no personal message, please discuss here.
a final confirmation will be announced at the end of january.

link to the program:
http://www.lureofmeccg.org/program.php

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Re: Lure XIII Program - Discussion

Post by Beornd » Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:29 pm

I checked the last three Lure´s and about the statistic from the average particpants following ranking was done:

Mainevents:
Gen:Opp. - 29 - SA/Day
ARDA - 22 - at any time
Hero Mixed Sealed - 14 - FR/Day
DC-Gen.Opp. - 13 - FR/Evening
Cool Play - 12 - SA/Evening
Minion Sealed - 11 - SU/Day

Sidevents:
Crap Sealed - 11 - FR/Evening
DC - Challange Deck - 10 - SA/Evening
Lost Challange Deck - 9 - SU/Day
Hamburger Scenario - 9 - SA/Day
Hero One Deck - 9 - FR/Day
Pool Sealed - 9 - SA/Evening
Challange Deck - 9 - mixed with Lost Challange
Draft Hero Sealed - 8 - cancelled
Drinking Game - 7 - cancelled
Sealed Hero - 6 - cancelled

Cool Play Challange - new - FR/Evening

The last three tournaments (Draft, Drinking and Hero sealed) have decreasing participants and could be cancelled or should stay only if there people do an advance announcement. So we do with new formats.

Lost Challange and challange deck could be mixed like last year (perhaps each participants must play one hero, one minion and one fw-deck)

So afterwards there we have 11 tournaments beside ARDA. Normaly we have one mainevent so 5 slots and one or two sideevents another 6-10 slots and that will work very easily.
About the ranking above following programe is possible.

So thats what statistic say – with this basis now it´s easier do discuss.

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Re: Lure XIII Program - Discussion

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:54 pm

Great work Bernd. The real problem however is always figuring out which kind/types of players prefer which types of events. Can you make a player analisis? :D

For example, I think there is some overlap between Cool Play players and DC players, but both events are scheduled at the same time. I don't know what the overlap is between GO players and either of these, perhaps it's bigger, but otherwise it could be advisable to have 1 of these events during the afternoon.
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Re: Lure XIII Program - Discussion

Post by Beornd » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:43 am

Thorsten the Traveller wrote: For example, I think there is some overlap between Cool Play players and DC players, but both events are scheduled at the same time. I don't know what the overlap is between GO players and either of these, perhaps it's bigger, but otherwise it could be advisable to have 1 of these events during the afternoon.
Yeah thats always a border case - your example (DC Mario, Karsten) (CP Bernd, Patric) want to play GO at Saturday so for all is DC/CP Tournament as a saturday sidevent not practicable, but friday or saturday evening will work :? But thats only one example i ´m sure for other players or tournaments it would be the same.

The only way to handle that (99 %) is to preregister within a fixed time.

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Re: Lure XIII Program - Discussion

Post by zirilan » Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:02 pm

Hello,

it's best to start with the some quotes of Eric and Bernd here:
The real problem however is always figuring out which kind/types of players prefer which types of events.
This is an important fact, but it is also influence by other parameters:
  • * availability of the tournament
    * subtype of the tournament format
    * player alter preferences over time
    * who else is playing (not playing) this tournament
    * necessary preparations to take part
    etc.
The only way to handle that (99 %) is to preregister within a fixed time.
This is as well an important fact, but is also influence by other parameters:
  • * players tend to not sign in until they know the whole program with all tournaments
    * players do not react on messages (no response)
    * players do not know what to play (unknown formats)
    etc.
Can you make a player analisis?
That is not an easy task since you cannot compare a The Firstborn & Durin's Folk Tournament
from 2005 with the Dream Cards General Opponent Tournament from 2012 for example.
The cards changed, the players changed or were not aware of what it was and chose another
tournament to join even if DC would have been more sufficent for them, but they did not know.
For example the first Lure of Meccg I joined was in 2005. I did not know what I want to play or not.
Holger and me did build some decks befor the Lure and did some test plays. So I had a Hero Deck
and a Cool Play Deck, never played Fallen Wizards or Balrog and barly ever saw Minion Decks.
So some tournaments did not come into consideration: Gernal Opponent, Minion Sealed and/or
Constructed nor Scenario Tournaments other than Cool Play (since I got no Deck for them) [Image 1].
The choice was therefor more easy, sealed games, Hero games and with support of Holger Minion/
Hero pair sealed
.
Image
Image 1: Lure of Meccg 2005 - Player-Tournament-Distribution

An interesting effect appeared at Lure of Meccg 2009 [Image 2]. The Arda did an impact to the
players community. At Worlds 2008 I think it appeared on the screen at the first time. Befor it
was called Boxed Game I believe. It had an unbeatable advantage towards all other tournament
formats. It had an availability of 100%. You could always play Arda and were not bound to any
time or schedual. The fact that 7 other tournaments got canceled (the ones that got normally
6 till 8 players) might be a result of that fact. People that had decks build for those other tourneys
had to chose another tournament within only some minutes to think about -> most went to Arda.
Image
Image 2: Lure of Meccg 2009 - Player-Tournament-Distribution

Lets now see the last Lure of Meccg 2012 [Image 3]. Each year some tournaments advanced and
improved. A chain reaction of creating Challenge Decks for different tournament formats caused
some formats to be favored than others where you still had to build your own deck to take part.
Challenge Decks for Dragons Hunt, White Mithril, Cool Play, Dream Cards, etc.
Also the change of method in what players took part in the tournaments helped that fact. The
change from interrupt mode to polling mode. Since player barly preregistered on its own as soon
as they knew what to play and kept that data secured in their own brains not sharing with the
community or tournament coordinator, it was of more use to just ask them again and again and
again till they said "yes" or "no". The community does not work in interrupt mode, where players
tell the coordinator as soon as possible that something changed.
Image
Image 3: Lure of Meccg 2012 - Player-Tournament-Distribution

So coordinators of the different tournaments could ask all players that were interessted in the past
if the want to join again.
Build good, or impressive Challenge Decks for your format that have chances to win the tournament.
Come up with new ideas on how to attract players to join.
Shorten and simplify rules of the tournament format.
Adjust not working or bad working stuff in the tournament format.
Be involved in the format over the whole year, not only the 3 days of Lure.
Formats that are not taken care off will vanish (Doors of Night Tournament, Virtual Cards, etc.)

Forgot the idea to contact all players on your own. Devide task to the coordinators who will
take care about that 6 till 14 players that are interessted. They can preregrister a group of
players, that is at least doable.

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Re: Lure XIII Program - Discussion

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:28 pm

Looks like somebody is going for a PhD in meccg :wink:

I agree with the observation that, as people's lives develop, most attendants at Lure prefer the relaxed setting, have become less competetive, and do not want to spend much time on preparation. Challenge decks and Arda are popular for these reasons.

But I will say, promotion for a certain format is nice, to gain some awareness and attention, but don't make it a competition. Those who play format A will not play B, so is there really any point in spending much effort to draw people in? That's time better spent on inventing something new for the game, to keep it interesting.
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Re: Lure XIII Program - Discussion

Post by Taurelin » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:31 pm

Thorsten the Traveller wrote:as people's lives develop, most attendants at Lure prefer the relaxed setting, have become less competetive
This observation hits the nail on the head, at least it is true for myself.

My first Lure was in 2011, and I took part in three competitions - one each day. In 2012 I only played one tournament. The reason was that in 2011 I was there alone, while in 2012 my whole family joined me. That meant that
a) we just couldn't be there on time when the first events on Friday afternoon started (our kids go to school)
b) we couldn't concentrate on competitive play as our kids require attention from time to time
c) it was much more relaxing just to play some rounds of Arda and casual games in between.

I see the Lure more like a social gathering of the community, not like a grim competitive event. Hence I appreciate the large selection of official activities, but I take the freedom to select just a handful of them for myself. This year, for instance, I'm looking forward to Cool Play again, and I probably also might have joined the Hero Sealed like in 2011. But the schedule (Fr afternoon) will keep me out of it (again). Still I'll have a good time with the alternative program
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Re: Lure XIII Program - Discussion

Post by zirilan » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:06 pm

Once there is more data gathered and all is analysed it might be necessary to break up current
program division [Image 4]. Since Arda is available in all kind of formats and can start
with three players (half the number of participants than other tournaments) it can merriely be
moved to Program 6 with other alternative offers. This frees a valuable space in the tournament
pipeline to offer popular tournament typs at an additional place (for example: Hero 1-Deck at
Friday noon and Hero 1-Deck at Sunday too). The effort to build a constructed deck is lowered
by 50% for the players, sine they build a deck for 6 rounds and not 2 decks for each of 3 rounds.
In past Lure Events this worked out fine.
Image
Image 4: Lure of Meccg Program Header

Two different Drinking Game Events are thinkable, thought not on different times. It will work
if offered both at Friday Evening. Two of the three formats: Drinking Game, Drinking Game with
Special Cards, Arda Drinking Game, are doable. Such tournaments can be placed in the free slot
of former Program 4.

Another question is the aviability of sealed material. Is there material for a Hero/Minion Pair?
What is the stock of the boosters / starters etc.?

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Re: Lure XIII Program - Discussion

Post by zirilan » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:08 pm

... at the 8. of decembre Wolfgang ask to discuss the Lure program ...
... till now I only see Eric and Bernd discussing it here ...
... at the end of month the program will be set and nobody else cares? ...

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Re: Lure XIII Program - Discussion

Post by marcos » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:23 pm

i want to play hero one deck, minion cool play, general opponent, and maybe some sealed. Pretty much the same as last year, hope they won't happen at the same time. I also missed a walk in the town last year, too much excitement about playing and meeting everyone :)
Don't want to miss it this year.

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Re: Lure XIII Program - Discussion

Post by Muad'Dib » Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:58 pm

I still prefer good, old, classic types of MECCG. So plan to play some sealed events and GO. And would like to join minion cool play if isnt at the same time with another tournament (like sealed or drinking game). About the programm, im not sure, but i think atm our community is divided. One group of people still playing classic games and secound group more involved into new types of playing like ARDA, DC etc. So, except no players, none event shouldnt be cancelled. Probably its obvious, but the most popular tournaments shouldnt be played at the same time, thats all what we can do (just my 2 cents).
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Re: Lure XIII Program - Discussion

Post by zirilan » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:08 am

Lets look at an example on how the program could look like ...
You will notice that some tournaments now got two seperate times to take place (Hero Only 1Deck or CH-Deck incl. 9 Lost Ones).
As you can also see, Program 4 has changed from Arda to Challenge Decks since there there were developed Challenge Decks for plenty of other formats too.

Its time to give all those Challenge Decks an own Program, the new Program 4 column. Also there are many Drinking Game cards, and for years there was not
a single tournament that you could play those cards, lets try with one big Drinking Game table but with two groups, one with special cards and one without but
both at friday evening but at the same table to keep the beer party folks forked together.

Another interesting thing will be the increasing number of DC players. There are so many cards by now and the first two sets will be printed as real cards and
played for the 1st time this year. So there should be a DCFF Tournament with only those real printed cards + normal cards. There are so many premade decks
from Vastor and Eric that it would be a waste to skip the DCCD to make place for that DCFF tournament. So there would be three DC events all at different times.

Last but not least we also could dig up some formats that got lost over the years, like a Doors of Nights tournament or Ringwraiths Only tournament.

Image

... and now feel free to fire input at will.

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Re: Lure XIII Program - Discussion

Post by Shapeshifter » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:41 am

I would like to play DCGO, DCFF, DCCD, GO, Cool Play Constructed, Hamburger scenario and Arda. Unfortunately that is too much for one weekend. Moreover most of those tournaments happen to be at the same time, e.g. GO - DCFF - Hamburger Scenario are all scheduled the same time on Saturday. Same with Cool Play Constructed and DCCD. None of those tournaments I would like to play (except Arda) are scheduled on Friday afternoon and Sunday.
At least for me the current timetable is not very suitable. I would suggest to move either Hamburger scenario or Cool Play Constructed or DCCD to Sunday or Friday afternoon.

Edit: I guess that there might be more players, especially from the DC-Scene, that would play Hamburger or Cool Play if those wouldn't be held at conflicting times.

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Re: Lure XIII Program - Discussion

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:48 pm

I can't or wouldn't plan a dcff tournament really unless we're sure the cards will be ready.
If we do plan it, it should be instead of the dccd.

I'd like the dcgo to start earlier on Friday afternoon actually, this has been bugging me for years. Some say not everybody's there on Friday yet, others say people leave early on Sunday, well that's nice, but it only leaves evenings and Saturday, and evenings end up too late (with too few rounds) and Saturday is GO time. So last few years I've spent Friday/Saturday afternoon twiddling my thumbs (or using thumbs to cut/glue cards :wink: ). Would be nice if we could change that.

A dccd on Sunday is fine as well, as far as I'm concerned. It always has a not too serious introductory air about it anyway, with people dropping after 2 rounds because they feel their decks don't work (which mostly comes down to them not reading the guide provided, perhaps they have more wits for new stuff early in the morning).
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Re: Lure XIII Program - Discussion

Post by Vastor Peredhil » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:05 pm

so let us then play DCGO friday and play 1 round before dinner maybe starting at 16.30 ? then? and I will bring dccds so other can join, then on Saturday we play a DCFF tourney if we get the stuff done!

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