Factions as armies

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Factions as armies

Post by Logain » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:33 am

I've read the different rules about armies i found and am mildly satisfied with them.
I want to use such rules in the first age setting for War of Wrath.
That's what i came up with. Any comments welcome.


Mustering an army.
• When a character successfully influences a faction, by default he leaves it as a garrison at that site, playing the card in your marshalling point pile as usual.
• A leader can tap during site phase to take control of a garrison under your control (by default, a faction in your marshalling point pile garrisons its site), if at the site where the faction is playable.
Leader does not need to tap if he just influenced the faction (he normally is already tapped for doing so). Such a controlled faction is called an army.

Controling an army
• An army has a mind value: the leader uses direct influence to control it.
• If controlling leader dies or is discarded, the army can be transferred to another unwounded leader, or goes back to his home site as a garrison (your marshalling point pile).
• To influence a faction that moved you must be at the factions current location (at his home site if it is in the Marshalling Point pile).

• A leader may decide to resume control of an army during the organization phase if you control the site. Place faction card under the site if not at his home site : the faction becomes garrisoned at that site. Place faction card with the site, or in the [-me_mp-] pile.

Moving an army.
• An army has a move stat. Default is 2 regions. A company with an army cannot use cards that allow a company to move faster, unless specified.
• Factions played under control of a leader are considered to be at that leader's site.

Combat stats for armies & garrisons.
• An army has a prowess stat (average should be marshalling point value + 7).
• An army has a defined number of attacks (average should be 2).
• An army has a “body” (morale), average should be equal to its influence difficulty.

Interaction between companies and armies.
• Army entering normal site.
When a company with an army enters a non garrisonned site you do not control, said army must face the first strike of each automatic attack. If more than one army, each army takes a strike (defender chooses).
• Company entering garrisonned site.
When a company with an army enters a garrisonned site you do not control, the company faces an additional automatic attack (see garrison's stats) then its army must face garrison's army in army versus army combat.
• Army entering garrisonne dsite.
When a company with no army enters a garrisonned site you do not control, the company faces an additional automatic attack (see garrison's stats).
• Movement / hazard phase against a company with an army.
An army gives a bonus to prowess of all characters and allies in the leader’s company, equal to its marshalling point value. If more than one army in the company, use highest value. A leader must chose a value corresponding to an army he controls.

Combat versus army or site combat
• Standard modifications to a faction’s prowess:
o A demoralized army: -2.
o An army not tapping vs a strike: -3.
o A garrisoned faction: +1 (+2 if at their home site)
• If the army fails a strike against another army or from an automatic attack while attacking a site:
o If the Army fails a body check, it is disbanded : discard it (they flee).
o If the army succeeds a body check, it is demoralized : “wound” it.

Combat versus army.
o To resolve an army versus army battle, use [-me_ccc-] rules, each army being a character.
o Company with another company combat must be resolved after army versus army battle is done.
o A company with an army cannot be attacked in company versus company combat (you have to use a specific card).

Untap and heal phase.
• A demoralized army is “healed” if at his home site and it is not besieged.
• A leader can tap to “heal” a controlled faction. Roll an influence check, if successful faction is healed. Or make a card?

Miscelleanous :
• Factions, like allies, cannot be taken prisoner.
• Armies can only benefit from prowess bonuses that specify work on armies.
• Cards that cancel an attack or strike can not be played to avoid army versus army combat unless they specify working on armies.
• Only a faction in your Marshalling Point pile (garrisoned at his home site) can undertake a Long Grievous Siege.

Controling a site :
• Default rule is that a hero leader controls Free-holds or Border-holds, and that a minion leader controls Shadow-holds and Dark-holds.
• If you have an unwounded army and entered the site and ennemy has no army garrisonne dhere, you control the site.
• An army who is at the same site as an enemy garrison is besieging the site, garrison is besieged.

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Re: Factions as armies

Post by Darksatin » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:10 am

It seems good to me.
But maybe we do not need this rule :

"An army has a mind value: the leader uses direct influence to control it".

A leader is a leader...

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Re: Factions as armies

Post by Logain » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:57 am

Why not.

Having a mind value could show that some leaders are better than others, and could limit the number or quality of armies they can have.
Undisciplined Orcs or easterlings could have a higher mind value than elite elves for example.

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Re: Factions as armies

Post by Darksatin » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:17 am

Another idea : assign a value to the leaders : a "Leader 1" can control 1 army, a "Leader 2" 2 armies, and so on...

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Re: Factions as armies

Post by Shapeshifter » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:03 pm

Looks very promising. :D

The rules for armies are very similar to the rules for characters (moving/combat/healing).
On the one hand this is very nice because you don't have to learn completely new game mechanisms. On the other hand it also leads to some queer implications. For example it sounds quite strange that an army ususally has only one strike.
Another example: The Southrons faction (hero) bears 5 MP because it is supposed to be hard to be influenced because of the long way from Rivendell to Southron Oasis; according to the army rules above it will also be one of the strongest factions (prowess 5), thus being stronger than the Riders of Rohan or the Iron Hill Dwarves. Wose armies will become quite strong as well compared to other armies like the Men of Anorien. This doesn't feel right.

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Re: Factions as armies

Post by Logain » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:18 pm

I think armies should have one strike un army versus army combat.
Against a company not sure if it must affect all characters or if i must write number of strikes vs companies.

Otherwise you are right, army stats must have no link with mps or influence difficulty.

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Re: Factions as armies

Post by rezwits » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:46 am

Have you ever read in the GCCG Dream Card rules, Red Nightfall?

It has a whole well worked slew of Faction rules.

Even movement rules where, instead of Factions using site cards, they use Region Cards, for their movement, because basically a Faction is "in" the region and roam from region to region, kinda...

It's pretty cool, let me see if I can dropbox it for you seeing as how the SVN repo has been down...


Should work, laters...
You probably aren't playing Agents correctly 8) <- need a rule thread for this tho...

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Re: Factions as armies

Post by Logain » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:40 am

Thanks for your input !

Yes i've read them and didn't like them that much. Didn't try them however. Any comment from someone who playtested MERN ?

My biggest concern is regions, especially since i don't plan using region cards in first age variant.
I don't agree that an army really is in a region : most of the time it goes from site to site to either enter it or attack it, known sites most of the times. Sometimes an encampment or a place that will be remembred as a battlefield.
Some very specific sites could block an army from going through the region, but most of the time an army can just pass by and go futher if food can reach it.
In third age Gundabad or Minas Morgul maybe, but even Goblin Gate or Moria can be avoided through High Pass or Redhorn Gate (although the region should not be attainable by armies i suppose). Plains of battle in first age should be a battleground.
I hesitated with creating "battleground" keyword which are sites that can block such movement.

I also don't like the side board stuff (specific sideboards like vs fallen wizards didn't make it in the casual scene, i prefer making specific cards that will have "choose from two effects", one for armies and another for characters), and don't like the fact you need specific mustering cards, why can't you muster them just by playing them or going to the home site ? (i suppose if you don't play armies those are the cards you'll have to put in that sideboard...).

Combat system is interestingly simple, i'll give it a try, but i'd like a more complicated thing about who defends a site and who besiges it, about companies accompanying armies also.

Some card ideas are nice.

Middle Earth: The Red Nightfall “Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!”
The Third Age was one of great personal heroism, but also of military valor. Great armies sought to attack and defend fortified places, spreading the will of their leaders across Middle Earth. In Middle Earth: The Red Nightfall, your factions may march for conquest or to defend your holdings.

Getting Ready To Play
NO - Red Nightfall sideboard
Each players play deck may include a “Red Nightfall” only sideboard of 10 cards. This sideboard may only be accessed if your opponent has played a mustering card (explained below).
Note: This is a balance/gameplay consideration __ on the one hand, there should be rules for military conflict for those that want it. At the same time, such a thing should not force a person to have to embroil themselves in wars. Thus, a sideboard loaded with defensive cards for the Red Nightfall expansion should help a non_militant player protect themselves against a militant player while adding to the challenge and fun faced by a militant player. Many defensive cards can be brought from the sideboard for free if your opponent's mustering card is in play, while cards that aid faction attacking may not. Thus, the militant player must devote more of his real sideboard to such considerations. Also, if both players are militant, the extra sideboard space allows for greater conflict.
NO - Region cards
The Region Cards from Middle Earth: The Wizards will be necessary for play.

Factions And Movement
In Middle Earth: The Red Nightfall, factions do not sit passively in your Marshalling Point pile.
Instead, each faction has their location represented by a region card or an Under_Deeps site card. An Under_deeps site card used by a faction may be moved to or away from by any of your companies. Normally, factions may not move. Certain cards may change this. When using region movement, a faction is normally limited to 3 regions.
Factions attempting to use Underdeeps movement must roll as though they were a company.
Faction movement is not affected by effects which return a company to their site of origin/prevent movement.
NO - A faction with a resource permanent event on it which is not from the Red Dawn expansion may not move unless such a resource expressly allows it to.
A faction with flying may move up to 5 regions.
A faction’s movement is declared as normal during the organization phase, except that it is not necessary to play site if a faction is using region movement. A faction is considered to move during the movement/hazard phase, but does not have a movement/hazard phase (i.e. no cards are drawn or hazards played upon them).
Note: A faction’s home region refers to any region that contains the site where the faction is playable. A faction’s home site is any site where the faction is playable. A faction’s region is the region the faction is currently located at. Factions only playable at Under-deeps sites do not have a home region. A faction currently at an Under-deeps site may use that site in place of a faction’s region for any applicable card texts.
Note: Middle Earth: The Red Nightfall introduces Dragon Enraged factions. If a Dragon Enraged faction is in play, ignore all attacks from any other manifestation of that Dragon.

Mustering Cards There are three mustering cards in the Red Nightfall expansion: The Doom Of Choice for Hero players, Swift Onset for minion players, and Setting Up On His Own for Fallen Avatar players. You may not include a Hero or Minion mustering card in your deck if you are capable of using Setting Up On His Own.

Faction Battles
On your turn, during the site phase after all your companies have completed whatever actions they wish to take, you may elect to initiate a faction battle in each region wherein there are at least one of your factions and one of your opponent’s factions.
Your factions are the attacking factions and your opponent’s factions are the defending factions. To resolve a faction battle, total the Marshalling Point value of all factions in the region and add a roll as well as any modifications.
Fallen Avatars must use the current Marshalling Point total of their factions, not the normal total. Compare this total with your opponent’s total. The higher value wins.
Note: Hero players may not initiate faction battles against each other.

Standard Modifications:
A defending faction in their home region: +1
A faction in a region containing one of your havens: +2
A dwarf faction at an under-deeps site: +3

The player with the lower value must wound one of their factions or eliminate an already wounded faction. Wounded Factions A wounded faction is inverted (no body check rolls are made). Such a faction has its region movement allowance increased by one. Such a faction gives half the Marshalling Points it would otherwise give (rounded down, minimum of 1).This applies even to fallen players. A wounded faction at its home region/site may elect not to participate in faction battles in which they would be defending. This will prevent them from being eliminated. A wounded faction may not participate as an attacking faction in faction battles.

During the untap phase, a character at a faction’s home site may attempt to heal a faction if the faction is at the associated region/site. To do so, the character must tap to make influence attempt against the faction. For this purpose, the faction is considered as being in play. If the influence attempt succeeds, the faction is healed.

Eliminated Factions
If faction is eliminated, they are removed from play. Neither player may play any manifestation of that faction.

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