LoRE beta rules and card text

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Mordakai
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Re: LoRE beta rules and card text

Post by Mordakai » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:10 pm

326 different cards + 71 characters seems more or less the same as the original METW collection. The types of decks would not be quite different, but it could be done as a test. Proxies are printed nowadays in very good quality and quite cheap. Maybe an 'official' layout could be done from CoE (something like what you proposed a few days ago) and afterwards any player could download and print at self-expense and risk...
I see copyright problems, however :|

Oh, and I don't see any 'unique' reference in the cards (in the rules is mentioned, but I don't see any field of 'uniqueness' in the cards file, neither as a column nor in the text boxes...
C'mon, not the Elves of Lindon AGAIN...

Logain
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Re: LoRE beta rules and card text

Post by Logain » Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:15 pm

Mordakai wrote:326 different cards + 71 characters seems more or less the same as the original METW collection. The types of decks would not be quite different, but it could be done as a test. Proxies are printed nowadays in very good quality and quite cheap. Maybe an 'official' layout could be done from CoE (something like what you proposed a few days ago) and afterwards any player could download and print at self-expense and risk...
I'll go that way then, we'll see if it has success.

Plan will be to make a static magic set editor semi official file based on the playtest file, and a second dynamic one with modifications issued from playtest.
Mordakai wrote: I see copyright problems, however :|
Dunno. It would be aimed at a very small population of guys that spend hundreds of euros on the game, for a dead game, for a second edition bêta test... Looks very limited to me. I'll see if the Lure staff has anything to say on that.
Mordakai wrote:Oh, and I don't see any 'unique' reference in the cards (in the rules is mentioned, but I don't see any field of 'uniqueness' in the cards file, neither as a column nor in the text boxes...
Yeah i saw that, added "Unique" to many cards (characters, factions, most allies, some creatures...).

Logain
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Re: LoRE beta rules and card text

Post by Logain » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:45 pm

Unique cards have symbol • in their title.

What do you think, do i write "Unique" the old fashion way or do i use this symbol ?

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Mordakai
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Re: LoRE beta rules and card text

Post by Mordakai » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:12 pm

Logain wrote:
Mordakai wrote:326 different cards + 71 characters seems more or less the same as the original METW collection. The types of decks would not be quite different, but it could be done as a test. Proxies are printed nowadays in very good quality and quite cheap. Maybe an 'official' layout could be done from CoE (something like what you proposed a few days ago) and afterwards any player could download and print at self-expense and risk...
I'll go that way then, we'll see if it has success.

Plan will be to make a static magic set editor semi official file based on the playtest file, and a second dynamic one with modifications issued from playtest.
Well, as a MSE MECCG plugin user, I think the best that can be done is first of all design an appropiate template that covers all the types of cards and symbols before any work is done. Something similar enough to the original MECCG to be recognized, and different enough to tell the difference. I offer you my help with that as I did with the MSE files.
Logain wrote:
Mordakai wrote: I see copyright problems, however :|
Dunno. It would be aimed at a very small population of guys that spend hundreds of euros on the game, for a dead game, for a second edition bêta test... Looks very limited to me. I'll see if the Lure staff has anything to say on that.
Personally, I don't give a damn about it, I totally agree with you. I have myself proxied almost every card I don't own, including a complete Balrog playset in spanish. But even with that, ignoring the issue does not make it dissappear.
Logain wrote:
Mordakai wrote:Oh, and I don't see any 'unique' reference in the cards (in the rules is mentioned, but I don't see any field of 'uniqueness' in the cards file, neither as a column nor in the text boxes...
Yeah i saw that, added "Unique" to many cards (characters, factions, most allies, some creatures...).

Unique cards have symbol • in their title.

What do you think, do i write "Unique" the old fashion way or do i use this symbol ?
Personally, I would put a symbol somewhere in the card to represent it, maybe a "U" rune in the upper right corner or something, just to reduce the textbox to the maximum as well as not cluttering the card name.
C'mon, not the Elves of Lindon AGAIN...

Logain
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Re: LoRE beta rules and card text

Post by Logain » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:55 pm

Mordakai wrote: Well, as a MSE MECCG plugin user, I think the best that can be done is first of all design an appropiate template that covers all the types of cards and symbols before any work is done. Something similar enough to the original MECCG to be recognized, and different enough to tell the difference. I offer you my help with that as I did with the MSE files.
Well, i'm almost finished with card making ^^
Used mind for target numbers on hazards & faction rolls.
Used Stage cards for starting cards (minor items & quests).
Writing strikes in the prowess & body box.
Where a stat is 0 i just don't write it.
Result is quite nice.

But why not, i can just change a card type to a new one.
Mordakai wrote: Personally, I would put a symbol somewhere in the card to represent it, maybe a "U" rune in the upper right corner or something, just to reduce the textbox to the maximum as well as not cluttering the card name.
Not sure about that. Either state it plainly, writing "Unique." or use that • symbol in the title or elsewhere. We'll see.
Last edited by Logain on Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Logain
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Re: LoRE beta rules and card text

Post by Logain » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:55 pm

Mordakai wrote: Well, as a MSE MECCG plugin user, I think the best that can be done is first of all design an appropiate template that covers all the types of cards and symbols before any work is done. Something similar enough to the original MECCG to be recognized, and different enough to tell the difference. I offer you my help with that as I did with the MSE files.
Well, i'm almost finished with card making ^^
Used mind for target numbers on hazards & faction rolls.
Used Stage cards for starting cards (minor items & quests).
Writing strikes in the prowess & body box.
Where a stat is 0 i just don't write it.
Result is quite nice.

But why not, i can just change a card type to a new one.
Mordakai wrote: Personally, I would put a symbol somewhere in the card to represent it, maybe a "U" rune in the upper right corner or something, just to reduce the textbox to the maximum as well as not cluttering the card name.
Not sure about that. Either state it plainly, writing "Unique." or use that • symbol in the title or elsewhere. We'll see.

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Mordakai
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Re: LoRE beta rules and card text

Post by Mordakai » Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:35 pm

This is what I mean by a similar but different layout of cards. These are test cards I printed a few months ago just for fun, and the result was quite gorgeous, I think:

Image ImageImage Image

As you can see, I used a pentagon in the faction card to represent the numer you have to beat to play it, so it is easier than reading the textbox. The rest is quite straightforward. This time I used photoshop directly, not MSE, but the idea is more or less the same. If you are going to make it, I suggest to improve the present frames to get the best out of your work. When I started using MSE, i modified some frames just to get a better result. Example: Left: original hazard, same hazard made in MSE. Can you tell the difference?

Image Image

Of course you can. The textbox has a brighter background, almost white instead of the original dark grey... That kind of things are the ones that I think should be taken into account if "reprinting" :wink:

Good luck and ask for help if needed
C'mon, not the Elves of Lindon AGAIN...

Logain
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Re: LoRE beta rules and card text

Post by Logain » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:37 am

Looks very nice, yes we can try something like that if you can create such mse layouts (just be sure i can change from the format i have to the new one without having to redo those 400 cards !).

We need the usual stuff, and :
* target number box on factions & hazards (foolish words & corruption).
* special layout for starting cards (i used green stage cards for Quests and minor items).
* a strike box on creatures would be nice, so we don't write the strikes in the text box.
* mind isn't used anymore.
* the mixed hero / minion background used in dream card environment for cards common to those players (factions, some ressources, some characters maybe, some items...).

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Mordakai
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Re: LoRE beta rules and card text

Post by Mordakai » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:11 am

Logain wrote:Looks very nice, yes we can try something like that if you can create such mse layouts (just be sure i can change from the format i have to the new one without having to redo those 400 cards !).

We need the usual stuff, and :
1 target number box on factions & hazards (foolish words & corruption).
2 special layout for starting cards (i used green stage cards for Quests and minor items).
3 a strike box on creatures would be nice, so we don't write the strikes in the text box.
4 mind isn't used anymore.
5 the mixed hero / minion background used in dream card environment for cards common to those players (factions, some ressources, some characters maybe, some items...).
1- Do you like the pentagon? Do you propose any other shape? Square? Diamond?
2- Not really sure about that. Quests maybe, but minor items too? I mean, you can also play minor items during the game, why should them have a different layout?
3- And a number of attacks box too. I'm working on something you may like, gimme a little of time
4- Really? I see mind values in the characters sheet... ¿?
5- Will work on that. I don't see use for it right now, but maybe in the future?
C'mon, not the Elves of Lindon AGAIN...

Logain
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Re: LoRE beta rules and card text

Post by Logain » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:17 am

Mordakai wrote: 1- Do you like the pentagon? Do you propose any other shape? Square? Diamond?
2- Not really sure about that. Quests maybe, but minor items too? I mean, you can also play minor items during the game, why should them have a different layout?
3- And a number of attacks box too. I'm working on something you may like, gimme a little of time
4- Really? I see mind values in the characters sheet... ¿?
5- Will work on that. I don't see use for it right now, but maybe in the future?
1- A circle would be nice, something close to a dart target maybe. Could be used for body as well. Body, Faction, Hazard removal are all based on the same mechanic and we never have 2 of them on the same card.
2- Quest cards can also be played during the game, like minor items. I think it can be useful to guide players on which cards can be used as starting cards. Starting cards are a great addition in most card games, and it's what makes Fallen Wizards and First Folk decks interesting in deck building. Having starting cards for Wizards in 2d edition could be nice if we develop playtest.
3- Number of attack box might be too much, it can be written in the text box as only 2-3 creatures will use that box.
If body uses a target box, then the prowess/ body box can become a strike / prowess box.
4- Looks like Mind value stays but that characters have no marshalling point value anymore. Will read the rules again.
5- Well if it workds (people like it or if i'm really motivated) i'd make lidless eye. So it could be used now on mixed cards like Lucky Strike or most Man factions. DC layout is great for that purpose.

You could try to open my mse file with the latest version of mse, tell me if it works.

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Mordakai
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Re: LoRE beta rules and card text

Post by Mordakai » Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:15 am

Logain wrote:1- A circle would be nice, something close to a dart target maybe. Could be used for body as well. Body, Faction, Hazard removal are all based on the same mechanic and we never have 2 of them on the same card.
2- Quest cards can also be played during the game, like minor items. I think it can be useful to guide players on which cards can be used as starting cards. Starting cards are a great addition in most card games, and it's what makes Fallen Wizards and First Folk decks interesting in deck building. Having starting cards for Wizards in 2d edition could be nice if we develop playtest.
3- Number of attack box might be too much, it can be written in the text box as only 2-3 creatures will use that box.
If body uses a target box, then the prowess/ body box can become a strike / prowess box.
4- Looks like Mind value stays but that characters have no marshalling point value anymore. Will read the rules again.
5- Well if it workds (people like it or if i'm really motivated) i'd make lidless eye. So it could be used now on mixed cards like Lucky Strike or most Man factions. DC layout is great for that purpose.

You could try to open my mse file with the latest version of mse, tell me if it works.
1 & 3 - Not quite convinced about the body thing. The P/B format is quite established and is very intuitive. Regarding the icon for the "target roll" , a circle or dart target may be too similar to the stage points icon ( [-me_sp-] ), so I would try another shape.

2 - Not bad idea, let me try photoshopping a bit. Any favorite colour for it? I tried a golden scheme, here is a trial:
Image

3 - You're right regarding the number of attacks, I'll show you an sketch of strikes/prowess/body icon when I finish it.

4 - Mind stat stays, I don't see any MP value for characters too. Maybe they don't give MP at all (it's not a bad idea, specially if only 15 MP are needed to call Council)

5 - Done. Check the result and tell me (Hero-Minion event not shown for redundancy, but also done):
Image
C'mon, not the Elves of Lindon AGAIN...

Logain
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Re: LoRE beta rules and card text

Post by Logain » Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:20 pm

Regarding the target icon.
If problem only is Stage points icon maybe it could be better to change the stage points icon to something else.
It is less known, not sure we will do Fallen Wizards second edition, and if we do them stage points might need a change like just counting stage cards.
But it's a minor thing, so if you have a nice icon different from the others i'll do with it, no problem.

Starting cards layout should be less flashy maybe, paler ?

Mixed cards are cool.

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Mordakai
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Re: LoRE beta rules and card text

Post by Mordakai » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:57 am

Logain wrote:Regarding the target icon.
If problem only is Stage points icon maybe it could be better to change the stage points icon to something else.
It is less known, not sure we will do Fallen Wizards second edition, and if we do them stage points might need a change like just counting stage cards.
But it's a minor thing, so if you have a nice icon different from the others i'll do with it, no problem.

Starting cards layout should be less flashy maybe, paler ?

Mixed cards are cool.
Some ideas (direct influence icon and stage points icon also showed for comparison):
Image

Better this way?
Image

And an idea of an icon that combines number of strikes, prowess and body (3 strikes, 15 prowess and 8 body):
Image
C'mon, not the Elves of Lindon AGAIN...

Logain
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Re: LoRE beta rules and card text

Post by Logain » Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:01 pm

Icon for strikes / prowess / body is very nice

For target number not sure. I still like the simple circle. What about something more like that :
Image

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Mordakai
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Re: LoRE beta rules and card text

Post by Mordakai » Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:54 pm

Logain wrote:For target number not sure. I still like the simple circle. What about something more like that :
Image
I like it, but it just does not match with the LotR theme for me, quite similar to an aiming point of a modern firegun. In fact, it is very similar to the Combat Pool icon in Alien vs Predator card game...
Image
C'mon, not the Elves of Lindon AGAIN...

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