Under-Deeps surface site clarifications

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Moriquendi
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Under-Deeps surface site clarifications

Post by Moriquendi » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:28 pm

Two questions regarding Under-deeps surface site movement -

First - Surface sites that were tapped (tapped Moria to play Book of Maz. for example) and discarded on the way down - Can they be re-used as a surface site if your deck is exhausted and play deck reshuffled while you are still in the Under-deeps?

Second, in the CRF, I see a note indicating "The Wind Throne is now always the surface site of an Under-deeps site." Does this mean I could use The Wind Throne as an alternate surface site for The Under-Gates if Moria is already tapped and discarded in the example above?

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the Jabberwock
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Re: Under-Deeps surface site clarifications

Post by the Jabberwock » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:17 pm

Moriquendi wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:28 pm
Two questions regarding Under-deeps surface site movement -

First - Surface sites that were tapped (tapped Moria to play Book of Maz. for example) and discarded on the way down - Can they be re-used as a surface site if your deck is exhausted and play deck reshuffled while you are still in the Under-deeps?
Yes, you may replay the site once it is shuffled back into your location deck.
Moriquendi wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:28 pm
Second, in the CRF, I see a note indicating "The Wind Throne is now always the surface site of an Under-deeps site." Does this mean I could use The Wind Throne as an alternate surface site for The Under-Gates if Moria is already tapped and discarded in the example above?
Good question. The Balrog site The Wind Deeps lists The Wind Throne as its surface site. But I'm not sure what this CRF clarification is trying to say. Hopefully someone else knows. :D

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Konrad Klar
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Re: Under-Deeps surface site clarifications

Post by Konrad Klar » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:33 pm

Moriquendi wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:28 pm
Second, in the CRF, I see a note indicating "The Wind Throne is now always the surface site of an Under-deeps site." Does this mean I could use The Wind Throne as an alternate surface site for The Under-Gates if Moria is already tapped and discarded in the example above?
No. It does not mean that The Wind Throne is always the surface site of any Under-deeps site.
It means that since Balrog Edition it is the surface site of The Wind Deeps, whether Balrog player participates in play, or not.
So since then, for example, creatures that can be keyed to surface site of an Under-deeps site, may be keyed to The Wind Throne.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

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Moriquendi
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Re: Under-Deeps surface site clarifications

Post by Moriquendi » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:00 pm

So that effectively is stating that Hero and Minion versions of The Wind Throne are considered an Under-deeps surface site even though there is no hero or RW minion version of The Wind-Deeps?

i.e. Shelob's Brood could be played keyed to The Wind Throne on a hero company moving there regardless of the fact that there is no Under-deep site for Wizard or Ringwraith players.

I can't seem to think of any other card (outside of Balrog-specific resources) that would be affected by that ruling for non-Balrog players.

Kjeld
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Re: Under-Deeps surface site clarifications

Post by Kjeld » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:15 pm

Moriquendi wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:00 pm
I can't seem to think of any other card (outside of Balrog-specific resources) that would be affected by that ruling for non-Balrog players.
Nameless Thing (with Doors of Night in play) would be a big one.

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Konrad Klar
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Re: Under-Deeps surface site clarifications

Post by Konrad Klar » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:54 pm

And little one:
Balrog, Getting Ready to Play, Miscellaneous wrote:A non-Balrog player cannot use Balrog sites. However, for the purposes of playing
certain hazards, a non-Balrog player’s location deck may include one copy each of:
Ancient Deep-hold, The Wind-deeps, The Drowning Deeps, The Rusted-deeps, and
Remains of Thangorodrim (i.e., the Balrog sites for which there is no corresponding
hero or minion site).
The Wind-deeps may be used by non-Balrog player as rescue site against company moving to The Wind Throne.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

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the Jabberwock
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Re: Under-Deeps surface site clarifications

Post by the Jabberwock » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:07 am

With the addition of the sites in Balrog, The Wind Throne is now always the surface site of an Underdeeps site. (CRF)
Are Blue Mountain Dwarf-hold and Iron Hill Dwarf-hold considered to also always be Under-deeps surface sites? They are listed on the cards The Drowning Deeps and The Rusted Deeps as their surface sites (although they require special conditions to move between them).

If the answer is NO...

Then what about if Breach the Hold has been successfully played? Could hazard creatures keyed to Under-Deeps surface sites then be played at all versions of the Blue Mountain or Iron Hill Dwarf-holds (whichever one was breached)?

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the Jabberwock
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Re: Under-Deeps surface site clarifications

Post by the Jabberwock » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:16 am

An additional clarification:
The Under-Galleries
● You cannot play Morannon at The Under-galleries. However, you can play Ancient Stair from
Morannon, move to The Under-galleries, and zip back to Morannon at the end of the turn.
(CRF)
Morannon is not considered to be an Under-deeps surface site then for hazard play?

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Re: Under-Deeps surface site clarifications

Post by Konrad Klar » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:12 am

the Jabberwock wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:07 am
Are Blue Mountain Dwarf-hold and Iron Hill Dwarf-hold considered to also always be Under-deeps surface sites? They are listed on the cards The Drowning Deeps and The Rusted Deeps as their surface sites (although they require special conditions to move between them).
Balrog, The Under-deeps wrote:For the purposes of playing hazards, a Free-hold is never considered to be the
surface site of an Under-deeps site.
the Jabberwock wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:16 am
Morannon is not considered to be an Under-deeps surface site then for hazard play?
Morannon is considered to be an Under-deeps surface site.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

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