Earcaraxe & Long Dark Reach

The place to ask all rules questions related to MECCG.
Post Reply
User avatar
the Jabberwock
Council Chairman
Posts: 813
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:46 am

Earcaraxe & Long Dark Reach

Post by the Jabberwock » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:45 am

Long Dark Reach specifies the creature must be playable in a region besides Coastal Sea.

So is LDR checking the playability requirements of the creature at the current game state? Meaning, if Doors of Night is currently in play, Earcaraxe may be played keyed to Andrast (not a coastal sea) and thus could legally be played with LDR. However, if Doors of Night is not in play, Earcaraxe may not be played using LDR because he can normally only be keyed to Isle of the Ulond (a coastal sea).

OR .... since Earcaraxe does have a non-Coastal Sea region listed as sometimes playable, he may be used in conjunction with LDR at all times?

Thanks!

User avatar
Konrad Klar
Rules Wizard
Posts: 2002
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:35 am
Location: Wałbrzych, Poland
Contact:

Re: Earcaraxe & Long Dark Reach

Post by Konrad Klar » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:39 am

the Jabberwock wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:45 am
OR .... since Earcaraxe does have a non-Coastal Sea region listed as sometimes playable, he may be used in conjunction with LDR at all times?
is not correct.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

User avatar
the Jabberwock
Council Chairman
Posts: 813
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:46 am

Re: Earcaraxe & Long Dark Reach

Post by the Jabberwock » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:42 am

Many thanks! :D

User avatar
the Jabberwock
Council Chairman
Posts: 813
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:46 am

Re: Earcaraxe & Long Dark Reach

Post by the Jabberwock » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:03 pm

I have a follow-up question to this topic....
LONG DARK REACH
Playable on a moving company with at least one Wilderness [ [-me_wi-] ] in its site path if you have at least 10 cards in your play deck. Reveal the top seven cards of your play deck. One revealed Nazgûl, Dragon, or a non‐unique creature of your choice immediately attacks the company (regardless of its playability requirements). The creature must be playable in some region besides Coastal Sea
[ [-me_cs-] ]. If the creature could not normally be played on the company, modify its prowess by ‐4. Shuffle all unused cards and return them to the top of your play deck.
(bold mine)

May the non-Earcaraxe dragons be played with LDR if Doors of Night is NOT in play? I have 2 friends who have differing interpretations of how this works and I must admit I can see the reasoning behind both:

Example 1:
Doors of Night is not in play. Hazard player plays Long Dark Reach and reveals Itangast from his play deck. Itangast may not attack the company because he is currently only playable at his home site of Gold Hill (which is a site, not a region).

Example 2:
Doors of Night is not in play. Hazard player plays Long Dark Reach and reveals Itangast from his play deck. Itangast may attack the company because he is currently playable at his home site of Gold Hill, and Gold Hill is located in a region (Withered Heath) which is not a coastal sea.

Which of the above examples are correct?


I have a second question about LDR, which I thought was discussed in a previous thread, but I can't seem to find it. So if someone can either link me to the thread or answer this question, it would be appreciated:

May cards such as Prowess of Age be played on a Dragon attack which takes place as a result of Long Dark Reach? It seems natural that this would be allowed (hazard limit permitting), however I seem to recall something being said about the specific way that LDR resolves which doesn't allow for the play of such hazards? Any clarification is appreciated!

User avatar
Bandobras Took
Rules Wizard
Posts: 2626
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:30 pm

Re: Earcaraxe & Long Dark Reach

Post by Bandobras Took » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:55 pm

If Earcaraxe is disallowed, so are the other Unique Dragons. None of them are playable keyed to a region unless Doors is in play.

Why would a card such as Prowess of Age be disallowed?
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards correctly. This prompted the backlash erratum that I will link to as soon as I notice it is officially posted. :)

User avatar
the Jabberwock
Council Chairman
Posts: 813
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:46 am

Re: Earcaraxe & Long Dark Reach

Post by the Jabberwock » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:40 pm

Bandobras Took wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:55 pm
If Earcaraxe is disallowed, so are the other Unique Dragons. None of them are playable keyed to a region unless Doors is in play.
That's not necessarily true if Example #2 is correct. In this case, Earcaraxe would require DoN, but the other Dragon's would not (because Earcaraxe's home site is the only one which is found in a coastal sea region.) The question is: "is playable at sites located within a region considered the same as playable in that region?" Playing a dragon at Gold Hill can also be interpreted as "playable in some region other than coastal sea."
Bandobras Took wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:55 pm
Why would a card such as Prowess of Age be disallowed?
I don't know, but I seem to recall reading something about this. I only had about 15 minutes to search for the topic, so I will look again later when I have more time if nobody else is familiar.

User avatar
Konrad Klar
Rules Wizard
Posts: 2002
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:35 am
Location: Wałbrzych, Poland
Contact:

Re: Earcaraxe & Long Dark Reach

Post by Konrad Klar » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:43 pm

"Playability in region" is not defined term. This may mean being keyed to region (by name), to region of given type, to a* region of given type, to site in a region of given type.

*) attacks keyed to a given region type do not include attacks keyed to multiple instances of given region symbol. Angamar Arises does not allow a creatures normally keyed to [-me_sl-] [-me_sl-], to be keyed to listed regions.
Attacks keyed to given region type include attacks keyed to multiple instances of given region symbol. Ford prevents a playing of creatures keyed to [-me_wi-], [-me_wi-] [-me_wi-], [-me_wi-] [-me_wi-] [-me_wi-], and so on.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

User avatar
Bandobras Took
Rules Wizard
Posts: 2626
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:30 pm

Re: Earcaraxe & Long Dark Reach

Post by Bandobras Took » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:18 pm

the Jabberwock wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:40 pm
Bandobras Took wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:55 pm
If Earcaraxe is disallowed, so are the other Unique Dragons. None of them are playable keyed to a region unless Doors is in play.
That's not necessarily true if Example #2 is correct. In this case, Earcaraxe would require DoN, but the other Dragon's would not (because Earcaraxe's home site is the only one which is found in a coastal sea region.) The question is: "is playable at sites located within a region considered the same as playable in that region?" Playing a dragon at Gold Hill can also be interpreted as "playable in some region other than coastal sea."
Ouch. That's actually a valid way to interpret the card, thanks to Firiel and Surion getting a bonus to factions playable in their respective regions (and they themselves should be compared with No Escape From My Magic).

I can't think of a good counterargument off the top of my head, but I'll think about it some more.
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards correctly. This prompted the backlash erratum that I will link to as soon as I notice it is officially posted. :)

dirhaval
Posts: 576
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:39 am

Re: Earcaraxe & Long Dark Reach

Post by dirhaval » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:48 am

I like annotation 24 to prevent Prowess of Age.
Why is "immediately" in the text unless to ensure no hazard events are piled on?

User avatar
Konrad Klar
Rules Wizard
Posts: 2002
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:35 am
Location: Wałbrzych, Poland
Contact:

Re: Earcaraxe & Long Dark Reach

Post by Konrad Klar » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:53 am

In 2012 following restrictions:
(amendment to original version of Annotation 24): As an exception, if one of the
effects of a card is an attack, cards may be played that cancel the attack, cancel one of
its strikes, or that otherwise are playable during the strike sequence--see Annotation
18 (Turn Sequence, Movement/ Hazard Phase, Combat, Strike Sequence).
have been changed.
When facing an automatic-attack, you may play resources that directly affect the attack or would otherwise be playable during the strike sequence. The same applies for facing attacks created by cards with multiple actions.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.

User avatar
Bandobras Took
Rules Wizard
Posts: 2626
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:30 pm

Re: Earcaraxe & Long Dark Reach

Post by Bandobras Took » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:12 pm

dirhaval wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:48 am
I like annotation 24 to prevent Prowess of Age.
Why is "immediately" in the text unless to ensure no hazard events are piled on?
Even if it's immediate, that doesn't prevent the play of hazards to modify anything. Hazards played to affect combat must of necessity be played after the card creating an attack has resolved. Not during the same chain of effects. It's the recognition of that necessity that prompted ICE's (very badly worded) Annotation 24.

And even with the tightest, strictest interpretation of ICE's original, Prowess of Age modifies the prowess of the strike and so would be playable.
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards correctly. This prompted the backlash erratum that I will link to as soon as I notice it is officially posted. :)

Post Reply

Return to “Rules Questions”