We Have Come to Kill: target?

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Thorsten the Traveller
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We Have Come to Kill: target?

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:46 am

quick question:
- does We Have Come to Kill have a target? (if so which?)
- can it be used by FW to play a hero character?
- can it be used by FW to play a character at a hero site?
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Re: We Have Come to Kill: target?

Post by Konrad Klar » Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:00 pm

- does We Have Come to Kill have a target? (if so which?)
No.
- can it be used by FW to play a hero character?
Yes.
- can it be used by FW to play a character at a hero site?
Yes.
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Re: We Have Come to Kill: target?

Post by Khamul the Easterling » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:58 pm

... and can it be played to play a character at a site that is not yet in play?

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Re: We Have Come to Kill: target?

Post by Konrad Klar » Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:02 pm

Yes.
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Re: We Have Come to Kill: target?

Post by Shapeshifter » Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:17 pm

Khamul the Easterling wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:58 pm
... and can it be played to play a character at a site that is not yet in play?
Konrad Klar wrote:
Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:02 pm
Yes.
If that is really true it might need some further clarification on how and when this might be possible. I was always under the impression that WHCTK (as well as ACM) must be played on a company that currently is at a site (i.e. not en route between two sites). But if you are right, Konrad, is We Have Come to Kill limited to a specific phase in order to play a character at a site that is not yet in play? I mean, for example, it would be weird to play WHCTK during the m/h-phase of a moving company and then play a character at a different site.

Another question: Do the effects of WHCTK and ACM last until finally a character is played during that turn? That is: may WHCTK/ACM be played during the organization phase and the character be brought into play during the site phase?

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Re: We Have Come to Kill: target?

Post by Konrad Klar » Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:55 pm

Shapeshifter wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:17 pm
Another question: Do the effects of WHCTK and ACM last until finally a character is played during that turn? That is: may WHCTK/ACM be played during the organization phase and the character be brought into play during the site phase?
No. This is the immediate result of the card.
If a short-event specifies an action that may be taken later, it also specifies when the action may be taken. E.g. Great Road, Legendary Stair.
Shapeshifter wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:17 pm
is We Have Come to Kill limited to a specific phase in order to play a character at a site that is not yet in play? I mean, for example, it would be weird to play WHCTK during the m/h-phase of a moving company and then play a character at a different site.
Sometimes a new company may be created in M/H phase, e.g. if imprisoning hazard host becomes discarded by Marvels Told. Is it weird?
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Re: We Have Come to Kill: target?

Post by Beornd » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:54 am

Rulings Digest #69:
*** You can't use We Have Come to Kill at a site with no auto-attack
during the site phase at a site that has no company.

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Re: We Have Come to Kill: target?

Post by Konrad Klar » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:55 am

Beornd wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:54 am
Rulings Digest #69:
*** You can't use We Have Come to Kill at a site with no auto-attack
during the site phase at a site that has no company.
I'm curious why, and what an automatic-attack has to do with it.
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Re: We Have Come to Kill: target?

Post by Bandobras Took » Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:34 pm

Konrad Klar wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:55 am
Beornd wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:54 am
Rulings Digest #69:
*** You can't use We Have Come to Kill at a site with no auto-attack
during the site phase at a site that has no company.
I'm curious why, and what an automatic-attack has to do with it.
At a guess, they're treating the site as a target. (The entity through which the action "bring a character into play" plays out.) I've seen weirder things considered a target. :)

As for the automatic-attack, they're probably going with the philosophy that all resources are played by a company during the site phase, and are thus subject to the rule for facing automatic-attacks.

Not that either of these make a great deal of sense, but if the game made sense, we wouldn't really need the rules forum, would we? :)
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Re: We Have Come to Kill: target?

Post by Konrad Klar » Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:14 pm

Bandobras Took wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:34 pm
At a guess, they're treating the site as a target. (The entity through which the action "bring a character into play" plays out.) I've seen weirder things considered a target. :)
Still it does not explain why "site with no auto-attack" is mentioned. If a site would be actually a target, then it would not matter whether a site not in play has AA or does not have AA. Lack of target in play is enough reason to not to allow a playing a card. (To not to mention sites in play without company kept on play by some other effect).
Bandobras Took wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:34 pm
As for the automatic-attack, they're probably going with the philosophy that all resources are played by a company during the site phase, and are thus subject to the rule for facing automatic-attacks.
Then how minion company has to play Angmarims at Carn Dûm? Does its controlling player need to manage AA at Carn Dûm?
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Re: We Have Come to Kill: target?

Post by Bandobras Took » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:32 pm

Konrad Klar wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:14 pm
Then how minion company has to play Angmarims at Carn Dûm? Does its controlling player need to manage AA at Carn Dûm?
Well, that depends on how we're reading "faced all automatic-attacks" in the CRF. :)
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Re: We Have Come to Kill: target?

Post by Shapeshifter » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:24 pm

Konrad Klar wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:14 pm
Still it does not explain why "site with no auto-attack" is mentioned.
I would say that the answer in RD #69 only mentions sites with no auto-attack because the question was about them. The question seems to refer to a previous discussion that was not published in RD #69, though. Here is the whole quote:
Rulings Digest #69 wrote:If you can do it at a site with no auto-attack during the site phase that has no company, why couldn't you do it during the org?
*** You can't use We Have Come to Kill at a site with no auto-attack during the site phase at a site that has no company.
Summing up: WHCTK cannot be used to bring in a character at a site that is not in play.

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Re: We Have Come to Kill: target?

Post by Shapeshifter » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:32 pm

Some more quotes from Rulings Digests about We Have Come to Kill (bolded by me):
Rulings Digest #69 wrote:Re: We Have Come to Kill
Errata says it doesn't apply to Ringwraiths.
But apparently, you can bring in ANY OTHER character, it doesn't have to have the site chosen as its home site, nor does the Ringwraith need to
be present. Is this interpretation correct?
*** Yes, though a company needs to be at the site where you play We Have Come to Kill.
Rulings Digest #69 wrote:It was my understanding that if you had a non-moving company at one site, and you were doing another moving company's m/h phase, you could play We Have Come to Kill during that moving company's m/h phase to play a character at the non-moving company's site. Is this correct, and if not, what is the reasoning?
*** This is correct.
Rulings Digest #112 wrote:(2) Hans-Werner Milpetz asked: "A chance meeting/we have come to kill:
May I play one of these cards with a character at the end of my movement phase, before I have to reduce my handsize to eight?"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sometimes. You may do so if the relevant company is already at the site in question (because they did not move this turn, or because they have not taken their mh-phase yet). You may not do so if the relevant company is in transit.
Rulings Digest #117 wrote:4. Ben Sorenson asked: "is the play of A Chance Meeting/We Have Come To Kill actually legal under circumstances other than when character play is allowable [i.e., during the organization phase, etc.]? "
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Chance Meeting and We Have Come To Kill may be played with any company that is at a site, during any phase. The character brought into play in this way does not count against the 1-character-per-turn limit.

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Re: We Have Come to Kill: target?

Post by Konrad Klar » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:48 pm

Shapeshifter wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:24 pm
Konrad Klar wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:14 pm
Still it does not explain why "site with no auto-attack" is mentioned.
I would say that the answer in RD #69 only mentions sites with no auto-attack because the question was about them. The question seems to refer to a previous discussion that was not published in RD #69, though. Here is the whole quote:
Rulings Digest #69 wrote:If you can do it at a site with no auto-attack during the site phase that has no company, why couldn't you do it during the org?
*** You can't use We Have Come to Kill at a site with no auto-attack during the site phase at a site that has no company.
Summing up: WHCTK cannot be used to bring in a character at a site that is not in play.
OK. It at least explains why "site with no auto-attack" was specifically mentioned (because someone specifically said that at "site with no auto-attack" this is possible, not necessarily because this is possible at sites with AA in opinion of answering person).

Now my opinion: if bringing a character in play at site X would be the action that requires the site X as a target, then a player that lose all companies would have a hard times bringing any character in play.
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Re: We Have Come to Kill: target?

Post by kober » Sat May 05, 2018 1:14 am

During site phase, may WHCtK/ACM be played just after AA and before playing a normally-playable item at a site?

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