Re: Indur Unleashed

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Jambo
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Re: Indur Unleashed

Post by Jambo » Tue May 20, 2008 9:37 pm

Ok, Indur Unleashed tends to lead to Cave Trolls and hero items. How about some further ideas:

Indur Unleashed
If Indûr is in play (as your Ringwraith), his company may use Under-deeps movement (+2 to rolls to move between Under-deeps sites) and he may play The Balrog as an ally. While at Under-deeps sites or surface sites thereof, Indûr’s company may contain non-Ringwraith characters. If in Heralded Lord mode, tap Indûr Unleashed at the end of Indûr’s movement/hazard phase to allow him to move again using Under-deeps movement. If in Black Rider mode, one character in Indûr’s company may heal at any Under-deeps site during the untap phase. You may play mode cards on Indûr’s company when he is at any Under-deeps site, returning other mode cards to your hand. You may start the game with this card in lieu of a minor item.

marcos
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Post by marcos » Tue May 20, 2008 9:41 pm

like that

Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Tue May 20, 2008 11:25 pm

Why would this not lead to Cave trolls and hero items? Those are just easy points and useful allies. (Would be better if the whole cross alignment points was abolished, it's an abomination.)

Of course Marcos likes that, you just gave him some more croonies to play more Fires :wink: :?
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Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Tue May 20, 2008 11:32 pm

I agree with Thorsten; how about simply adding: Indur may not play Hero Items?

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Wed May 21, 2008 5:58 am

I think there's perhaps a better way to deal with cross-alignment item play, which I agree is a total abomination. Rather than lumping it on poor Indur's card, why don't we make some hazard to deal with the issue?

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Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Wed May 21, 2008 1:01 pm

Because hazards are so easily removed. I tend to prefer Unique resource events to help deal with really bad situations.

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Wed May 21, 2008 3:37 pm

I understand, but simply punishing Indur and Indur alone isn't fair when the culprits extend to many other deck types.

There are many ways to do hazards Ben, and they don't have to be of the easily removed long- or permanent-event variety. Why not a short-event? Make it unique and powerful, something to really hurt a deck that relies on getting its item points from cross-alignment cheeze.

marcos
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Post by marcos » Wed May 21, 2008 9:08 pm

Thorsten the Traveller wrote:Why would this not lead to Cave trolls and hero items? Those are just easy points and useful allies. (Would be better if the whole cross alignment points was abolished, it's an abomination.)

Of course Marcos likes that, you just gave him some more croonies to play more Fires :wink: :?
i didn't played that much fires with my Indur deck... anyway, the surface company can still play some of them :D

i don't think we have to abolish cross allignment, a regular minion doesn't have much to do at underdeeps except for items/ cave trolls, a regular minion don't have the same possibilities that a balrog or even a hero player haves... I think the way to deal with this is:
:arrow: create new underdeeps "quests" for regular minions...
:arrow: make indur's life a bit easier (by letting him be there with normal characters to fight vs rivers, and letting him play the hog as ally) so he can focus on some other marshalling points different than hero item cheeze
:arrow: give him the chance to play some of the balrog specific cards (but he still have to deal with rivers)
:arrow: create new hazards fo fight vs the regular fire techs/ cave trolls/ hero items cheeze

i know some are going to say that indur can play some RW followers to fight vs RWs but to do that, you need to sb them first and wait 'till you draw them, i think that's a lot of time wasted to base a deck on...

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Post by Frodo » Thu May 22, 2008 4:29 am

Perhaps we should wait a while on this thread until Vastor joins in (but someone should alert him to its presence). Last week I gave him a homework assignment: to study all the Balrog-specific cards, especially the sites, and determine which of these would result in new, viable strategies for Indur as your RW. By viable I told him I meant: 1) powerful but balanced, and, more importantly, 2) extremely fun and explorative!

It would be nice (ideally) if the modified card NATURALLY made Indur more inclined to seek minion items. However, if it simply made Indur much more powerful in the deeps, I wouldn't be opposed to limiting his use of hero items. directly with text on the card. It would be a compensation for his abilities. Ideally, though (really!) the new card would point him away from such play.

Frodo

Vastor Peredhil
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Post by Vastor Peredhil » Thu May 22, 2008 8:05 am

well I am aware of this post ;)

anyway as I see it,

allow Indur to use all Balrog Ruins&Lairs, for which there are no minion site.

also Indur can play Balrog Specific allies at these sites

also all of your companies can play balrog specific events which yield mp (Maker's Map), but only at these mentioned sites above

Frodo
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Post by Frodo » Thu May 22, 2008 6:56 pm

Hello Vastor,

Can you be more specific? What will the allowance of Balrog allies, Balrog sites, and each of the MP cards add to Indur strategies? (Especially the sites... are any of them tempting to go to?)

Frodo

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Fri May 23, 2008 9:02 am

Mainly these are sites that one can get greater and ring items from. The three additional allies are interesting although I would say that Evil Things Lingering would be comparatively easier to play with Indur, being playable at the Under-galleries and Under-courts. On top of being Balrog-specific, the Great Troll is also only playable by the Balrog which could represent a different issue...

We might find that the process of allowing a RW to use Balrog-specific cards and sites is a bigger, more complicated job than first imagined. My guess is it may require more than just an Indur Unleashed to achieve.

There's also the rather critical issue of whether such a thing can even be achieved with GCCG. These cards will be see their greatest play on GCCG and it could be that it's simply impossible to program/code. I can email wigy to find out.

If this is possible and it's an idea people want to pursue then perhaps Indur Unleashed should be replaced in set one and re-introduced when there's a clearer understanding of what we'd need to fully support it?

Vastor Peredhil
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Post by Vastor Peredhil » Fri May 23, 2008 9:31 am

well coming from Dreamcards I say I was pretty clear, but hey I will correct Jambo and everything will become clear...;)
would say that Evil Things Lingering would be comparatively easier to play with Indur, being playable at the Under-galleries and Under-courts.
my earlier post
allow Indur to use all Balrog Ruins&Lairs, for which there are no minion site.
so it is only playable at Remains of Thangorodrim

Code: Select all

On top of being Balrog-specific, the Great Troll
that is also true as I didn't mention any change to the rules affecting "RW not being Balrogs"
We might find that the process of allowing a RW to use Balrog-specific cards and sites is a bigger, more complicated job than first imagined. My guess is it may require more than just an Indur Unleashed to achieve
actually I do not believe it is

but yes the programming could be an issue

I will create a list so everyone can see it here, which card i am thinking off

mfg Nicolai

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Fri May 23, 2008 10:04 am

Vastor Peredhil wrote:well coming from Dreamcards I say I was pretty clear, but hey I will correct Jambo and everything will become clear...;)
would say that Evil Things Lingering would be comparatively easier to play with Indur, being playable at the Under-galleries and Under-courts.
my earlier post
allow Indur to use all Balrog Ruins&Lairs, for which there are no minion site.
so it is only playable at Remains of Thangorodrim
When you're saying that Indur can only use Balrog Ruins & Lairs Under-deeps sites, are you including in that statement that Indur cannot then use regular minion Under-deeps sites? If so, then I agree with you, but you are then ruling out the possibility of playing the Ancient Black Axe and The Balrog ally. Morevoer, how qwould Indur reach these sites from a Darkhaven?

I presume you don't mean the above and the intention is that Indur can use regular minion Under-deeps sites as well as Balrog Ruins & Lairs. Evil Things Lingering says "Playable at The Under-galleries, The Under-courts, or Remains of Thangorodrim." The Under-Galleries and Under-courts are not Ruins & Lairs and therefore the Indur player could play the ally at the non-Balrog versions of these minion sites.

Vastor Peredhil
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Post by Vastor Peredhil » Fri May 23, 2008 10:48 am

well Jambo, you got me bad on this one ;)

my new version
Indur Unleashed
If Indûr is in play (as your Ringwraith), his company may use Under-deeps movement (+2 to rolls to move between Under-deeps sites) and he may play The Balrog as an ally. While at Under-deeps sites or surface sites there of, Indûr’s company may contain non-Ringwraith characters. If in Heralded Lord mode, tap Indûr Unleashed at the end of Indûr’s movement/hazard phase to allow him to move again using Under-deeps movement. If in Black Rider mode, one character in Indûr’s company may heal at any Under-deeps site during the untap phase. You may play mode cards on Indûr’s company when he is at any Under-deeps site, returning other mode cards to your hand. Additionally you may include Balrog Ruins&Lairs site in your location, and may play Balrog specific allies or misc event only at these sites. You may start the game with this card in lieu of a minor item.
hope this covers it all

mfg nicolai

p.s. Play more dream cards, it relaxes and is good for you health

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