First of the Order

Where the Virtual Boyz plan their latest capers
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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Thu May 15, 2008 12:44 pm

Agreed.
The objective was fix fallen Saruman, not hero Saruman. Why should he get a permanent +2 cc bonus on spells/palantiri? He can already use/recycle them, isn't that enough advantage comparing to the other guys? Besides there is the normal First of the Order he can use if he feels he needs the cc bonus.
But, if we make the FotO V in such way that it has more appeal to be used by fallen Sorryman, then there is no problem, right? e.g. he can bring in half-orcs from discard, he's more of a squatter anyway, and half of his cc's he only get's tapped and not discarded, so this discard/handsize way of thinking is not that strange. Of course losing handsize is not nice, but being corrupted brings its issues, you're supposed to still not want to be corrupted, and hence the thought that you can discard stage to become less corrupted so you might turn it around again. This way hero Saruman would not use the card. just a thought.
btw. retrieve cards is in end of turn, so that would not compromise you during your own turn at least, but retrieving cards does mean making choices of course, you can always hope/decide to dump your hazards.
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

Frodo
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Post by Frodo » Sat May 17, 2008 3:34 am

We can simply specify Fallen Saruman for the second ability. No need to beat around the bush. So, say something like: "If Fallen Saruman would be eliminated by a corruption check while bearing a Palantir, the One Ring, or using a spell/magic card, you may prevent that effect by tapping or wounding Wormtongue in his company, or discarding a character in his company."

I love this idea that FW Saruman is already corrupted, and just going with the logical ramifications of that: of course he wouldn't be easily destroyed by his corrupt nature but it COULD make his power lessen.

If the ability was for FW Saruman only, I would go with the discard a character idea or the loss in hand size, with NO chance to make up the hand size loss. Perhaps we don't need to spell out conditions for the corruption prevention (palantir, etc.)?

I think I would pick the discard a character idea over handsize loss, since this is slightly more strategic and game-changing (the effect of handsize loss is always predictable, but not the effect of character loss) but whatever people want works for me. Thoughts, then?

What a cool idea to see FW Saruman recapture the One Ring and actually try to USE it! (Man, he could even put it on!)

Frodo

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Sat May 17, 2008 10:03 am

Ok, how about this:
First of the Order wrote: Playable on Saruman during the organization phase. Tap First of the Order to give a character in Saruman's company (except Saruman) a +2 to a corruption check from using a ring or a Palantir. If untapped, you may discard this card to give hero Saruman a +2 to a corruption check from a spell, a magic card, or from using a Palantir. If untapped, you may discard this card and a character in fallen Saruman's company to prevent fallen Saruman from being eliminated by a failed corruption check.
A little bit for everybody. :) Cannot be duplicated or able to be duplicated?

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Sat May 17, 2008 10:14 am

I'd say not duplicated, FW can get it with the Robes anyway, and the hero should not just drop it till occasion arrises (anyway with frequent use of spells he'll not want to keep it on). btw. How will hero Saruman use magic?

So is it not necessary to specifiy you can discard this in response to a failed cc? I mean, I don't believe you can take action in response to a failed cc, right? like tap the harp, play elf-song etc.

I like both effects, and true, handsize loss is more predictable, but discard character seemed to me maybe not strong enough of a penalty. We'll see. :wink:
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Sat May 17, 2008 3:02 pm

Yep, you're right. Now effects for hero and fallen Saruman are separated, there's no longer any need to state magic cards. Also, made a slight modification to the cc bonus - now it's to items rather than just rings and Palantir.
First of the Order wrote: Playable on Saruman during the organization phase. Tap First of the Order to give a character in Saruman's company (except Saruman) a +2 to a corruption check resulting from an item. If untapped, you may discard this card to give hero Saruman a +2 to a corruption check resulting from a spell or an item. If untapped, you may discard this card and a character in fallen Saruman's company to prevent fallen Saruman from being eliminated by a failed corruption check. Cannot be duplicated.

Frodo
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Post by Frodo » Sun May 18, 2008 5:34 am

I think the +2 for characters can remain unlimited in use (as opposed to just for items), but I'm undecided. Also, I think the +2 for characters can be used infrequently enough that there's no need to require the card to be untapped for Saruman to discard it. Couldn't we just say "Cannot be duplicated as a permanent event," to encourage the hero and FW Saruman player to use the original First of the Order as well? Finally, we should write "or using an item" to be clear (as opposed to transferring, or Dragon Sickness, or whatnot).

Frodo

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Sun May 18, 2008 9:40 pm

After discussion with Frodo:
First of the Order wrote: Playable on Saruman during the organization phase. Tap First of the Order to give a +2 to a corruption check to character in Saruman's company (except Saruman) who is bearing a ring or Palantir. You may discard this card to give hero Saruman a +2 to a corruption check from a spell or while bearing a ring or Palantir. You may discard this card and a character in fallen Saruman's company to prevent fallen Saruman from being eliminated by a failed corruption check. Cannot be duplicated.

Frodo
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Post by Frodo » Mon May 19, 2008 3:51 am

This is the final version on "Post tournament card corrections" topic.

Frodo

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