Dwar Unleashed

Where the Virtual Boyz plan their latest capers
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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Sat May 24, 2008 5:52 pm

Well, it could be playable for pallando cheez on hidden haven Ettenmoors. :cry:
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Post by Frodo » Sat May 24, 2008 7:16 pm

Yeah... we should probably avoid the wolf-faction playability, then.

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Sun May 25, 2008 8:48 am

Well, how about:
Also playable at any site with a wolf automatic-attack if you have a wolf faction in play.

This way, you need a regular wolf faction first or go to site with orc-auto. Pallando cheez can't play it at haven Ettenmoors because there is no wolf auto, and cheezagast won't like it because he has to leave weathertop for it or squat at Ettenmoors. Only problem would be, cheezagast squatting with two comps at both haven Moors and weather top, but that's unlikely.

It's good for Dwar because he can play it virtually everywhere then.
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Post by Frodo » Mon May 26, 2008 12:40 am

Since Dwar's comps will be spending so much time getting their dogs, what Thorsten just wrote is probably the perfect solution to allow his comps to pick up a few more of these factions as well.

So let's add this... unless someone thinks of another abuse that we missed from the cheesier Fallen Wizard strategies.

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Post by Jambo » Mon May 26, 2008 9:02 am

Done.

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Post by marcos » Mon May 26, 2008 8:46 pm

My point is, i wanted this faction to be playable at other sites than wolf auto attacks... so dwar can also get some items besides his factions/allies and still improve gradually his movement...

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Mon May 26, 2008 10:44 pm

huh? so you don't think moria/ goblin gate/ gundabad/ dimril dale/ mount doom/ wind throne/ sarn goriwing/shelobs lair is good enough for Dwar? he can play a ring, 4x major (even a hoard), a greater and 3x information there, plus 4 unique factions...did I miss something? And then once he's got 1 Orc-mounts, you can add to that: white towers/ ost-in-edhil/ weathertop/ ettenmoors and isengard. I'd say there are enough options...
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Post by marcos » Tue May 27, 2008 8:40 pm

What are you telling me with that? i already know that Dwar can play stuff at those sites, i was just expressing my point of view and i'm not criticizing any of your suggestions...

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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Tue May 27, 2008 9:05 pm

don't worry, I didn't think you were, I'm just wondering why you think these aren't enough options :wink:
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Post by marcos » Tue May 27, 2008 9:20 pm

Because rings and informations generally sucks, there aren't much nice minion major items, and orc factions, why would Dwar need orc factions when he got some benefit from wolves ones?
Maybe great army of the north playing war-wolves/ orc-mounts at same site as the orc faction? Yes, that sounds good, but more great army of the north is not much innovative...

best!
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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:48 pm

should this be duplicable? current version reads yes
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Post by Jambo » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:31 pm

hmm good point. Probably should be "cannot be duplicated".

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Post by Frodo » Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:11 am

Agreed and added.

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Post by Frodo » Mon May 25, 2009 6:39 pm

So almost one year later, I am reopening the Dwar thread, given Bandobras's and my testing experience with the deck. Interestingly, some of Marcos's last concerns came out in testing (about Dwar being able to get Wolf factions and points, etc.)

This post will regurgitate some ideas that Bandobras and I had, and my thoughts about them, as well as a list of issues I see with the Dwar strategy being currently too weak. We will add to this thread as we explore ideas and narrow down the options:


Bandobras comments: NEW DWAR UNLEASHED
Playable during the Organization Phase if Dwar is your Ringwraith. Dwar may moving using region movement to any site where a Unique Wolf Faction is playable or to any site with a Wolf automatic attack; tap this card to cancel an automatic attack at these sites. Characters bearing Wolf allies may be in Dwar's company; such allies gain the Ranger skill. Dwar may use Our Own Wolves and Hounds of Sauron.

Bandobras: Also, I'd encourage making Orc-Mounts a Unique faction playable at Goblin-Gate/Isengard, for 2 or 3 MPs.

Frodo responds:
*I like that first clause that lets him move to said Wolf sites, since we are trying to encourage said wolf faction sites.
*I'm not fond of the canceling of those autos would encourage squatting, perhaps without even Dwar being there, and if he was there, he probably doesn't need the cancellation.
*I don't like the unique faction idea with the orc-mounts because it would slow down one's access to this card and therefore to its other abilities (pulling faction, transferring ally). I also like the idea of many orc-mounts as a theme.

Frodo lists some issues regarding deck:
--I did like how the current card "built up" Dwar's power slowly, represented through region movement development. I also think his domain-changing ability is a unique and strange enhancement that makes one think about using him in ways we haven't seen (basically, to lure out his Nazgul bretheren or a Wolf/Spider beatdown).
--I would love to encourage the gathering of those other Wolf factions somehow. But with the need for all that protection to get the Wolf factions in those deadly areas, the Dwar deck becomes choked. But perhaps we are playing the Dwar deck incorrectly?? Maybe Dwar should move close to a Wolf faction site, then use his Dark-domain burst ability in the next org, so that his other company can then move SAFELY to those Wolf faction sites to get the points??
--I am thinking that some kind of untapping during the org ability on Dwar could be very useful (ala FW Gandalf), because then he could not only SIDEBOARD (needed with such a choked deck) but he could also tap to enhance prow/body of other company to help with protection. In fact, he could even TAP TWICE to enhance them twice (if no SBing). This could really, really help.
--I would love to encourage the use of MOVING companies, rather than squatting companies. In other words, how can we make this deck different than Radagast/Balrog wolf-squat? Here is a slight addendum to Orc-Mounts with that in mind:

NEW ORC-MOUNTS
Tap Orc-mounts and a Wolf ally to transfer the ally from one character to another in the same company; his new controller may untap.

OR (for moving bonus)
Tap Orc-mounts and a Wolf ally to transfer the ally from one character to another in the same company; if ally is moving, his new controller may untap. [OR say: “if ally moved this turn, his new controller may untap." To make it more flexible.]

The above is kind of neat, both thematically (they are leaping from wolf-back to wolf-back) and game play wise. It would mean the opponent would need to target those wolves as well; they are deadly useful. But I'm not sure if limiting it to only *moving companies*, or to only WHILE a company is moving, limits it too much. It basically comes down to whether the untapping ability is needed during the automatic attack or not. I assume one is still able to use this sort of untapping ability during an auto attack, for example: wolf ally assigned to face 1 strike at 7, but before taking it, he taps (and orc mounts taps) to untap Taladhan. Then Wolf ally takes strike. (??)

I think I'd like to try the above ability in our next game, but I'm unsure which iteration of it to use. Note that this ability is only an attempt at a complete answer to the problem; it doesn't address your excellent point about not making the Wolf factions more atttactive. But the following might:

NEW TEXT FOR SOMEWHERE:
Your unique Wolf factions gain:
+1 marshalling point, and
Standard Modifications: +2 for each
Wolf in company.

All these things would make wolves much less expendable, and gives even more need for Our Own Wolves, etc. In other words, Dwar’s power and his DECKS’ power really comes from the wolves!

Bandobras responds with another DWAR UNLEASHED:
Playable during the Organization Phase if Dwar is your Ringwraith. Dwar may move using region movement to any site where a Unique Wolf Faction is playable or to any site with a Wolf automatic attack. Characters bearing Wolf allies may be in Dwar's company; such allies gain the Ranger skill. Dwar may use Our Own Wolves and Hounds of Sauron. For each Unique Wolf Faction in play, Dwar's current region and an adjacent region become a [W] or [D].

Frodo responds: That first clause is pretty cool, especially because it means Dwar can pay a friendly visit to heroes that frequent wolf-infested lairs, which means Fell Winter would be a nice card to play. Hmm, it would change the current setup where Dwar could potentially move to ANY site that opponent is at, but perhaps, Bandobras, your version is more fair because it makes the crazy dark-domain setup a little trickier yet the Dwar-resource portion more useful. My only question about the above is the not-so-good wording of the last clause… would this mean that the Dar player simply picks the adjacent region to target? I guess that’s what it means. With 1 Wolf faction, is his current region AND an adjacent region affected? That seems okay, but just checking on your meaning.

Final question on the rules side of things: if we limit his region movement to how you wrote it above, is Dwar allowed to move to a non-haven site using starter movement? Even with the current Dwar Unleashed, I don’t think he is, is he? That means I was playing our game wrong, Bandobras!


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Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Mon May 25, 2009 8:12 pm

I think the region/starter question is moot; RWs can always move to Darkhavens using starter movement, and if region movement is allowed, one can easily move from a darkhaven region to other regions using region movement. If you want Dwar to move using starter movement to a non-darkhaven site -- I guess that's what mode cards are for. :)

Last phrase cleanup:
For each Unique Wolf Faction in play, you may choose for Dwar's region and one adjacent region to become a [W] or [D].

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