A Chance Meeting / We Have Come to Kill

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the Jabberwock
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A Chance Meeting / We Have Come to Kill

Post by the Jabberwock » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:05 am

There has been some debate as to whether or not these cards over-ride the normal restriction for characters to be played only during the Organization Phase.

I feel the evidence is clear that they do over-ride this restriction and present the following points to support this:

1) In ICE Digest 585, Van makes the following answer:
2.) A Chance Meeting

May I use this card to bring my wizard in play ? And what will be the amount of his mind ? May I use ACM at any time during my turn (during movement hazard phase to assign the new character a strike; will this increase the number of hazards) ? May I play a second character with ACM during organisation phase ?

No, you can't use A Chance Meeting to bring in Wizards. You can only play A Chance Meeting when you are _at_ a site, normally, the Untap, Organization, Site and End of Turn phases.
He clearly suggests here that it is legal to play ACM any phase you are normally at a site.


2) In Middle-Earth The Wizards Player Guide page 95, it says:
A Chance Meeting allows you to play a character outside of the organization phase and/or bring in an additional character in one turn. Tactically, this gives you many options. In addition to simply being able to reinforce a company, you can have a company of strong fighters move to a site, face the hazards and automatic-attacks and then bring in a scout who plays a scout skill card during the site phase. The scout would not have to face any attacks and risk being tapped or worse. Combining A Chance Meeting, a scout in your hand, and Thorough Search allows you to play an additional item at a site with no foreseeable risk to the scout.
There is clearly no ambiguity to the above. This is an ICE manufactured manual.

I propose the following clarifications be issued:
A Chance Meeting -

- May be played any time the applicable company is at a site.
- May be used to bring in an additional character during a turn.
We Have Come to Kill -

- May be played any time the applicable company is at a site.

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Konrad Klar
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Re: A Chance Meeting / We Have Come to Kill

Post by Konrad Klar » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:16 am

Blind to the West and Ire of the East may be played "at any time".
"Any time" is not restricted to player's turn, nor to opponent's turn.
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Theo
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Re: A Chance Meeting / We Have Come to Kill

Post by Theo » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:18 am

@Konrad Klar
Good catch.

@the Jabberwock
[retracted] Furthermore, Thrall of the Voice specifies that it may only be played during the organization phase, which would have been unnecessary if a lack of specificity defaulted to organization-phase-only. :)
Last edited by Theo on Sun May 06, 2018 1:11 am, edited 3 times in total.
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the Jabberwock
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Re: A Chance Meeting / We Have Come to Kill

Post by the Jabberwock » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:38 am

Konrad Klar wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:16 am
Blind to the West and Ire of the East may be played "at any time".
"Any time" is not restricted to player's turn, nor to opponent's turn.
Good point. Thank you. I amend my proposal then to the following:
A Chance Meeting -

- May be played on your turn during any phase the applicable company is at a site.
- May be used to bring in an additional character during a turn.
We Have Come to Kill -

- May be played on your turn during any phase the applicable company is at a site.

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Re: A Chance Meeting / We Have Come to Kill

Post by Konrad Klar » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:44 am

@Theo: you are right, but I read the Jabberwock's post as a clarification proposal, not as an errata proposal, so it is acceptable that it will include a things that can be inferred from existing rules*. :)

*) Namely from:
Lidless Eye wrote:Clarification: Hazard short-events and permanent-events can be played only during an opponent's movement/hazard phase. Resource short-events and permanent-events can be played at any time during your turn as limited by specific card text.
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Re: A Chance Meeting / We Have Come to Kill

Post by Theo » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:35 am

@Konrad
Definitely support your point. Your post came in while I was writing mine. :o Clarified above!
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Re: A Chance Meeting / We Have Come to Kill

Post by Bandobras Took » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:17 am

Theo wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:18 am
@the Jabberwock
Furthermore, Thrall of the Voice specifies that it may only be played during the organization phase, which would have been unnecessary if a lack of specificity defaulted to organization-phase-only. :)
Not necessarily; that phrase means you can't use Thrall to have a six-minder join your company after a successful influence attempt.
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards correctly.

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Theo
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Re: A Chance Meeting / We Have Come to Kill

Post by Theo » Sat May 05, 2018 7:07 pm

Bandobras Took wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:17 am
Theo wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:18 am
@the Jabberwock
Furthermore, Thrall of the Voice specifies that it may only be played during the organization phase, which would have been unnecessary if a lack of specificity defaulted to organization-phase-only. :)
Not necessarily; that phrase means you can't use Thrall to have a six-minder join your company after a successful influence attempt.
Could you elaborate? I feel like I'm not understanding. If a lack of specificity defaulted to organization-phase-only, you still wouldn't be able to bring a character into play after a successful influence attempt...
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Bandobras Took
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Re: A Chance Meeting / We Have Come to Kill

Post by Bandobras Took » Sat May 05, 2018 8:06 pm

If Thrall's ability did not specify that the character could only be brought in during the organization phase, a person could use its ability after a successful influence attempt against an opponent's six-mind character to then play the character during the site phase, which is otherwise impossible.

A lack of specificity can default to the organization phase if there is a specific exception outlined in the rules for the play of a character as a result of an influence attempt. I believe this is the case, because the rules on character play mention only the organization phase method and do not mention character play as the result of an influence attempt. In this case, even though there is a default, there is a rules-based exception to the default, necessitating the limiter on Thrall.
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

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Re: A Chance Meeting / We Have Come to Kill

Post by Theo » Sun May 06, 2018 1:05 am

Ah, I think I see your point now, thanks.

I would have been of the opinion that "instead of a normal character" would have already precluded bringing in a 6-mind character after an influence attempt, since as you say that is not normally how characters are brought into play. But I now see how what is "normal" is muddy enough that it would have been worth putting in the redundancy. Consider the attempt at Thrall of the Voice supporting evidence retracted.
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