The Ash Mountain Deeps

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Bandobras Took
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The Ash Mountain Deeps

Post by Bandobras Took » Sat May 31, 2008 3:10 am

Permanent Event

This card is used as an Under-Deeps Shadow-Hold with the surface site being any site in Horse Plains, Dagorlad, Or Gorgoroth (6). It has automatic attacks of Orcs -- 5 strikes at 6 prowess (non-detainment against Balrog and Fallen Wizard Players) and Spawn -- 1 strike at 12 prowess. Tap a Warrior during the site phase at this site to retrieve a Non-Unique Weapon/Armor/Shield/Helmet from your play deck, discard pile, or sideboard and play it.

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:30 pm

I like the idea of using the useless mountain cards for creating sites, but only if they add something special with some flavour. Also, goes without saying that we should be careful not to make too many sites where opponent can't reach you. Ok, heroes have Morannon, Refuge and Wondrous Maps, but those are not played alot as they don't do squat, and it would be nice if these sites do something neat which makes it worth while investing.

ok, here some rather lengthy versions but with nice options.

The Ash-mountain Deeps V:
May be played at the end of the organisation phase as a site card (no type) on a company at Barad-dur or The Under-courts. Required roll: 5 (7 for non minion player and must tap a scout), otherwise take this card to hand. Both players draw 2 cards. Automatic attacks: spawn 2@12, and opponent may play any drake or spawn hazard creature from hand. Special: discard (for no effect) a Strange Rations to play Wild Fell-beast with a character of 6 prowess or more that controlls no allies (even if site is tapped): it is considered an ally with 5 prowess and 7 body. If this card would otherwise be discarded, place it with company. Each character controlling a Wild Fell-beast may be in company with a Ringwraith controling Creature of an Older World and is considered in Fell Rider mode. If played with the company, this card is worth 2 mp's for each Wild-fell Beast. Company may move from this site to any site in Gorgoroth, Udun, Nurn, Dagorlad or Horse Plains. Cannot be duplicated on a company.

This obviously is Sauron's nursery for hatching Creatures. To tame such beasts however you need some Cookies and some real dominant character with strength. Wouldn't it be cool if you can have multiple nazguls flying out on beasts, or even: nazgul and Shagrat on beast? or is that too Eragon (man was that movie rubbish)

The White Mountain Caverns V:
May be played at the end of the organisation phase as a site card on a company at The Gem-deeps or Pukel-deeps, or a company moving with region movement if the last region is Rohan or Lamedon. Required roll if moving with region movement: 4 (6 for overt minion player and must tap a scout), otherwise take this card to hand. This card is a shadow-hold, creatures keyed to the site attack normally. Both players draw 2 cards. Tap an orc at this site to take Come by Night upon Them from your discard pile to hand. Black Horse V may be played here (even if site is tapped). Characters may heal as if at a haven. If there is an overt company at this site and no character is wounded, all unique hero factions playable at sites in Rohan, Gap of Isen, Old Pukel-land, Anfalas, Lamedon and Anorien are worth 1 less MP. A company at this site may move to any site in these regions; the hazard limit is -2 (to minimum of 2). Opponent may use this card as site card as well if there is an overt company present.

Since there are quite a few border holds in the Gondor area, it might be worth while leaving some orc behind to get more out of those sites. If he is lucky enough to survive, he might even play a steed. I'm thinking about adding something else to play here, but it should be something special, not just any major or weapon, can play those everywhere. But even with healing, grabbing Come by Night and playing steeds this might be worth it already for making the Gondor area more feasible. Also nice if opponent runs Gondor, but beware he will come for you.
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

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Post by marcos » Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:22 pm

The Ash-mountain Deeps V wrote:
May be played at the end of the organisation phase as a site card (no type) on a company at Barad-dur or The Under-courts. Required roll: 5 (7 for non minion player and must tap a scout), otherwise take this card to hand. Both players draw 2 cards. Automatic attacks: spawn 2@12, and opponent may play any drake or spawn hazard creature from hand. Special: discard (for no effect) a Strange Rations to play Wild Fell-beast with a character of 6 prowess or more that controlls no allies (even if site is tapped): it is considered an ally with 5 prowess and 7 body. If this card would otherwise be discarded, place it with company. Each character controlling a Wild Fell-beast may be in company with a Ringwraith controling Creature of an Older World and is considered in Fell Rider mode. If played with the company, this card is worth 2 mp's for each Wild-fell Beast. Company may move from this site to any site in Gorgoroth, Udun, Nurn, Dagorlad or Horse Plains. Cannot be duplicated on a company.
i like the idea of this card :D
What about not only wild fell beast, but fell beasts too?

nice ideas!

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Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:31 pm

I think I'd prefer a mind requirement to a prowess requirement. Strength of will should play a part in getting that kind of a pet. :)

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:46 pm

yes but ringwraiths don't have a mind stat :wink:
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Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:40 pm

If this is still an Under-deeps site, RWs couldn't move there anyway; on the other hand, that wording is absent on your version -- would this then NOT be an under-deeps site?

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Post by marcos » Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:09 pm

Indur can move with under-deeps movement now :D

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:47 pm

well, that would be up for debate (as is the whole idea of course), at first I had 'nazgul may move to this site,' then I thought why specify under-deeps site, it makes a difference only for certain hazards and rw movement, so I kind of decided it would be a 'special site.' Notice for instance it doesn't have a site type, you can only key drakes and spawn...
So no dark-hold orcs are playable or whatever. The movement roll is more intended to make it difficult to move there than actually resemble underdeeps, but indeed it is kind of under ground. Makes sense? :)

but yes you get into a shady category, does earth-plumb give you +1 and more such issues, so maybe it should be specified as underdeeps movement but ringwraiths may move there. Or keep it an Indur strategy indeed, would be nice to give him actually some nice mission: hatch out some creatures.

@fell beast: wild fell-beast is a creature and thus has more ally feel than a short-event, but indeed it could be used as well, maybe even better since wfb has a body stat that differs from Creature, so that's a bit confusing. Or allow all six of them? then AMD should be worth only 1 mp for each. And Fell Beast can be played from Nazgul Abroad?

Using hazards as resources is kind of tricky new deck mechanism though, interesting, but powerful, if you let 6 hazards change type to resource, you basically have a 36/24 deck, that would be too much.
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

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Post by marcos » Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:49 pm

what about making those cards sites from the beggining?

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:15 pm

How would that fit into the Virtuals plan? Which site would you use for it, or do you want to make a site with this name, that would be like making dreamcards?
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

marcos
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Post by marcos » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:21 pm

Thorsten the Traveller wrote:How would that fit into the Virtuals plan? Which site would you use for it, or do you want to make a site with this name, that would be like making dreamcards?
i would make the card a site from scratch. That means that the card has to be included in location deck. i dont think it is going to be like making dreamcards, because the card still keeps his own name and picture, it is not a new one, we just change its type and text...

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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:29 pm

hehe, I'd say changing a card type is pretty much changing the card, otherwise we could just make Wild Fell Beast an ally and be done with it, that would make this card a whole lot easier :wink:
But, that's not to say I object, only I think it might be pretty confusing. You are in a gccg mind or already thinking ahead to printing whole V cards, but for the moment we're stuck with add-ons.
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Post by marcos » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:34 pm

Thorsten the Traveller wrote:But, that's not to say I object, only I think it might be pretty confusing. You are in a gccg mind or already thinking ahead to printing whole V cards, but for the moment we're stuck with add-ons.
We'll have to test it in gccg and see if it is confusing or not, if not then we go ahead with a thought of printing cards...

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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:59 am

I'm pretty reconciled with the idea it's a site, you've made a gccg version and it looks ok, so why not actually, makes it alot easier to play.
However, I wouldn't make it a Ruins. With an auto at 2@12, and a roll, and a second auto, that's already very steep. Besides, it's Sauron's nursery for dragons, so it's more like a Shadowhold or Darkhold, even so I disliked the idea that Sellswords would pass by down there, so had proposed no site type, to also avoid playing things like Ancient Shield there, of course if it's a Darkhold peeps will abuse it to play Aiglos once more...well they can already do that going down from Barad-dur, so no change there. Make it a Darkhold then, but any non unique drake or dragon is playable there...

to safe space maybe skip the whole non minion movement extra, since fw's won't get MP's for the beasts they will hardly find it worth the trouble, and anyway, if it's a Darkhold they can't go there can they? Hmmm, is that why you made it a ruins?

Same remarks will by the way apply to White Mountain Caver-ways, making it an underdeeps site comes with certain issues, like: you can play two things there in one site phase, you can't move a rw there, allies might get discarded...
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Post by marcos » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:20 pm

I decided to make it a ruin to prevent aiglos/helm/axe/tech item squat.

I first thought of Ash mountains deeps as a Haven with no cancelling effect. that way it will be some kind of typeless site, but then Vastor come up with the idea of a Fallen wizard using such site, wich kinda bothered us... Now the fact is that FWs have to use Hero sites of minion Darkhavens, so i suppose that while there's no hero version, they can't use it? can they?

Also, characters will be able to enter play there and heal as well... What do you think?

About making them underdeeps or not... Yes, you are right about that. but how can we make them? they are not keyed at specific regions, that is why i decided to make them under deeps... Another idea might be using the word "special" instead of "under-deeps"

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