Balance Between Powers Yet Again

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Bandobras Took
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Balance Between Powers Yet Again

Post by Bandobras Took » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:17 pm

Hero Resource Permanent Event
Environment. All Environment Cards are shuffled into the play deck whenever they would normally be discarded (including this card). Reveal such cards to your opponent if they are discarded from your hand. Any player may tap this card during their turn to cancel the effects of an Environment Long-Event, and this card untaps at the start of every player's turn.

A few points:
This should not overpower roadblock because Balance can cancel the effects of a given roadblock.

The recycling ability is mandatory, which means the card would be counterbalanced by making deck management a logistical nightmare.

It would boost resource Environment play or hazard environment short-event play (e.g Choking Shadows, WIthered Lands, Awaken the Earth's Fire).

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:43 pm

hmm, this card is really interesting, definitely worth a try, but its effect on metagame would be big I think.
it would actually discourage roadblock, because it will slow you down and clogg your hand with hazards. It will be perfect in combo with a minimal environment resource strat. (like only Fog, or only High Hope) though.

only twilight/doors can cancel this card, yet you need less of them in deck with this card, and in fact want less of them or you'll end up with a twilight battle all the time nearing the end of both decks. It will slow the game considerably...

-what would be against cancelling also effects of environment perms?
-I suppose it should not be duplicated?
-how are we to check if opponent discards an environment? this promotes dishonest play, because I really wouldn't want to shuffle all those environments back in...
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

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Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:09 pm

There are already ways to be dishonest while playing, anyway (play any card in your hand and claim it's an agent, etc.). If your opponent has honesty issues, that's his problem.

The drawback you describe is the effect I was hoping for. It can do some crazy things to environment-based strategies but will do crazy things to your deck as well.

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:09 pm

well yeah, but still there is a difference between foul play, and being lured into cheekyness because of a powerful disrupting card, just as there is a difference between lying and omitting to tell something.

as with all powerful cards, we must beware not just the effect on the game, but on the meta game. People get scared by such cards, many decks rely on speed, if you are forced to draw the same twilight 7 times, you might prefer to not include environments at all. It affects both players, but you can adapt your deck to it by not putting environments in, while opponent is scared not to put any in just in case he runs into this.

anyway, is such mechanism even possible, come to think of it, how will you ever cycle your deck, unless you keep all environments in hand?

so is it duplicable? otherwise I might tap a Balance to negate the effect of Balance...
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

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Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:52 pm

Balance is a permanent event, so cannot cancel itself, but cannot be duplicated seems fine.

The key to exhausting would be to not replay Balance once it has been shuffled back in. Alternatively, since it is a resource, exhaust on your turn before your opponent has a chance to play it.

In my experience, decks that run Environment cards also run Twilight. It does create a metagame shift, but not necessarily a problem:
Environment. All resource environment cards in play are immediately discarded, and all resource environment effects are canceled. Cannot be duplicated.
If you can keep Doors in play, the effects would be canceled, I think. Odd.

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:21 pm

ok, that would be one reason not to let it cancel perms, though it would be nice to negate Shadow of Mordor for example.

You suggest you can actively decide to discard Balance yourself? (without use of twilight/doors?). Otherwise you depend on a mutual interest with opponent to let you cycle (he'll probably have some twilight in hand as well after all).

my point was, if you have more environment short-events in deck than handsize, it's impossible to exhaust :wink: So I suppose this card must discard at least upon exhausting by any player.

In fact, typically you would not have 1 Balance in deck but 2 or 3, once you drop the first, you'll be stuck with the other two and your handsize decreases, so playing with Doors yourself would be advisable :)
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Post by Bandobras Took » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:53 pm

So it seems you'd really have to work to Balance all these powers? ;)

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