[V suggestion] Incite Defenders/Denizens/Minions

Leon
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[V suggestion] Incite Defenders/Denizens/Minions

Post by Leon » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:55 pm

I was thinking about building an automatic-attack enhancer deck and would like your feedback on this idea. The idea is to have some useful creatures for deckbuilding purposes. I try to keep the text as short and clear as possible.

Incite Defenders
Creature, 1 Mp*, keyable to border-hold or free-hold. This creature has 1 attack with no body and the same type, prowess and number of strikes as a non-maia automatic-attack at the site of your choice (including all existing modifications to prowess and number of strikes) Detainment versus hero and covert companies.

Incite Denizens
Creature, 1 Mp, keyable to ruins and lairs. This creature has 1 attack with no body and the same type, prowess and number of strikes as a non-dragon automatic-attack at the site of your choice (including all existing modifications to prowess and number of strikes)

Incite Minions
Creature, 1 Mp, keyable to shadow-hold or dark-hold. This creature has 1 attack with no body and the same type, prowess and number of strikes as a non-nazgul automatic-attack at the site of your choice (including all existing modifications to prowess, etc) Detainment versus overt companies.

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:50 pm

what would be the purpose of creating these creatures, more space for non creature cards? it's just auto enhancement counting towards creature minimum, hmmm. I can go with you as far as creatures keyed to free-hold vs. minions are concerned, there are hardly any. But the rest?

btw you'd have to specify which versions of the sites the auto-attacks come from, especially for Incite defenders if you want to keep it alignment non-specific, which, granted, would be nice because you'd be able to play the same hazard deck vs. hero and minion...kind of.
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

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Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:34 am

The auto attack enhancers already available are actually extremely strong, imo. Tidings of Bold Spies also already functions for creating attacks based off of auto attacks.

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Nerdmeetsyou
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Post by Nerdmeetsyou » Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:06 am

yeah.... it functions nearly exactly as tidings... what would also my regard...

but on the other hand... it would work against squating instead of tidings, because tidings only works on moving companies as i remember!

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Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:08 pm

That's a good point.

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Nerdmeetsyou
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Post by Nerdmeetsyou » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:01 pm

But i think the problem is that it is still to bad... because it gives MPs
which is the main reason why you could play a creature keyable to those sites instead....

And the other problem is that it is quiet inflexible!!!

So if we want some kind of version of this cards maybe combine them into one card that is actualy worth playing!!!
so it is deverse like tidings... but also against squating! and playable against any kind of site like tidings... or at least at a variety of sites...

her my suggestion 1:


Incite Defenders V
Permanent Event
Playable on a non-ruins and laiar site. (not on-guard)
This card creates a copy of the automatic attack which must be faced at the end of the movement hazard phase of each company at or moving to the site. (This is not an automatic attack)
If such an attack is defeated place this card in your MP pile and this card gives you 1 MP.
This Attack is detainment for hero and covert companies at fee and border holds. And is detainment for overt companies at shadow and dark holds.
This card is discard when the site is discarded or returned to location deck.

------
So it is some kind of more flexible version of Siege...
which seems not too overpowered... because it doesn't take a creature slot which is allways not perfect and gives MP. (And by beeing no creature it can give MP to minions and heros und the right circumstances... in this case when not detainment)

So it even would work against mordor shuffle!!!
And maybe squater decks.... Still i'm not sure if the sites where the people normaly squat even have auto attacks?
Do they?

Leon
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Post by Leon » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:34 pm

I think the cards as I suggested them are more useful than the existing Incited cards. Tidings of Bold Spies is quite strong and Unabated in Malice is simply overpowered, but apart from those I never see automatic attack enhancers in play. Correct me if I am wrong.

I considered making the creature only playable on-guard, which would mean it is only Incited changed into a creature, but suggest a somewhat more versatile version first.

Boderhamster: My whole idea is that it is a creature. Your suggestion is not as much of a change and looks to me less usable than the original Incited cards.

I think the cards is flexible enough, if you fill your creature slots mostly with this and the rest of your deck with auto-enhancers that could be devastating. If more would be needed a V card could be made to return them to your hand at the end of a turn.

Thorsten: I am not sure how to word your point about hero/minion site the clearest. Is replacing the site with the version of the site it is keyed to enough?

If you have another suggestion for a more interesting card feel free to post it.

Leon
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Post by Leon » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:35 pm

A slightly different idea:

Incite Defenders

Creature, 1 Mp*, keyable to border-hold or free-hold. This creature has 1 attack: 1 strike with no body and the same type and prowess as a non-maia automatic-attack of your choice at the version of the site it is keyed to of your choice (including all existing modifications to prowess) Attacker chooses defending characters. The number of strikes of this creature cannot be modified.

Incite Denizens

Creature, 1 Mp, keyable to ruins and lairs. This creature has 1 attack: 1 strike with no body and the same type and prowess as a non-dragon automatic-attack of your choice at the version of the site it is keyed to of your choice (including all existing modifications to prowess) Attacker chooses defending characters. The number of strikes of this creature cannot be modified.

Incite Minions

Creature, 1 Mp, keyable to shadow-hold or dark-hold. This creature has 1 attack: 1 strike with no body and the same type and prowess as a non-nazgul automatic-attack of your choice at the version of the site it is keyed to of your choice (including all existing modifications to prowess) Attacker chooses defending characters. The number of strikes of this creature cannot be modified.

Note that it is never detainment, so it can be combined with Fear, Fire, Foes and such cards for combo's. I think this would be strong enough, with all modifiers that exist. If not, make it the automatic attacks prowess +2.

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Nerdmeetsyou
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Post by Nerdmeetsyou » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:01 pm

yeah you might want to enhance the auto attack by +2
because most auto attacks are quiet easy to do... at least those of the places mostly visited!

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Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:44 pm

I will disagree on boosting the prowess -- there are any number of auto-attack boosting cards that can buff this one if it's based off of the auto-attack. I don't think a further prowess boost is necessary for such a card.

Leon
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Post by Leon » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:57 am

I was considering what I wrote yesterday and I think 2 strikes at the prowess of the automatic-attack without attacker chooses defending character is probably more fitting. Defenders, Denizens and Minions are plural after all. This would be 2 strikes at 6, 7 or 8 for a lot of sites, but very easy to boost or combine with Fear,Fire,Foes or Whole Villages Roused.

A possible addition could be that a character can tap to cancel one of these guys if it is keyed to his home-site. I like this better than a note about detainment.

The advantage that your opponent has is that he is usually prepared for the creature type of the sites he visits.

So the last verison is:

Incite Defenders

Creature, 1 Mp*, keyable to border-hold or free-hold. This creature has 1 attack: 2 strikes with no body and the same type and prowess as a non-maia automatic-attack of your choice at the version of the site it is keyed to of your choice (including all existing modifications to prowess) The number of strikes of this creature cannot be modified.

Incite Denizens

Creature, 1 Mp, keyable to ruins and lairs. This creature has 1 attack: 2 strikes with no body and the same type and prowess as a non-dragon automatic-attack of your choice at the version of the site it is keyed to of your choice (including all existing modifications to prowess) The number of strikes of this creature cannot be modified.

Incite Minions

Creature, 1 Mp, keyable to shadow-hold or dark-hold. This creature has 1 attack: 2 strikes with no body and the same type and prowess as a non-nazgul, non-balrog automatic-attack of your choice at the version of the site it is keyed to of your choice (including all existing modifications to prowess) The number of strikes of this creature cannot be modified.

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:20 am

you still haven't made clear what purpose these cards would serve. Why Incite Defenders and not just assassin? why Incite Denizens and not just Cave Drake?
You think it thematically unjust that the Rohirrim don't attack me at Edoras when I'm a hero? you want me to face 2@10 non detainment there, which can be boosted?
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

Leon
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Post by Leon » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:08 am

I was thinking of options to make some cards for an automatic-attack strategy, it is as simple as that.

Perhaps it should give detainment attacks, but that is more of a balancing issue.

If you build an automatic-attack deck now, you will always end up with the standard list of Cave-Drake, Assassin, Sellswords, Cave Worm etc. I think this could be more interesting and encourage people to make hazard combo's.

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Nerdmeetsyou
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Post by Nerdmeetsyou » Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:44 pm

yeah... maybe the basic idear of makeing acualy cards for auto attack enhancers that are playable (despite of Tidings)... is a good one...

but i don't like the cards in general you purpose...
the most beneficial thing for example about tidings is it's diversity...

An other problem I have is when I play heros... why should I have to have minion sites with me?
that is quiet strange?
I did get it right...that you can make the heros face the minion sites auto attack. didin't I?
This is somethign we should not intuduce because it forces you to have an additional site deck and is unnessesarily difficult,
because you allways have to search for the site...
instead of making one GENERAL attack....
maybe that would be a better idear.

And i realy liked the idear against squater decks that the auto attack would stay big when you stay there.... as a permanent event! And even against shuffle decks you have to leave the site to get rid of it!

Leon
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Post by Leon » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:44 pm

Boderhamster: Please look up cards that people mention if you do not know them. http://www.meccg.net/netherlands/meccg/ has spoilers. It is hard to discuss new ideas if you do not know what is out there already. Just for your convenience I post these 2 existing cards:

FEAR! FIRE! FOES!
Playable on a Free-hold or Border-hold. An additional automatic-attack is created at the site this turn: 5 strikes with 8 prowess (detainment, no attack type). Alternatively, playable on a detainment automatic-attack a minion company is facing. The attack becomes normal (not detainment) and has -1 prowess.

Whole Villages Roused
Playable on a hero Border-hold or Free-hold . The site has the automatic- attacks indicated on the corresponding minion site card (detainment against hero companies) but with +2 prowess. Alternatively, playable on a minion Shadow-hold or Dark-hold. The site has the automatic-attacks indicated on the corresponding hero site card (detainment against overt companies) but with +2 prowess.

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