They ride together???

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:45 pm

huh? of course you can do that, but it is not really in the spirit of the card or is it?
It is cramped yes but it can be rephrased: 'if you have all 9 rw's in a company together...' in a company is always together, and anyway can you have them in play without being in same company? (prisoner? I think not). Instead of: 'at end of m/h phase...', you can write: tap this card to allow to move to...

btw there is a typo: "are" is not necessary in sentence "if you have all 9..."
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Post by marcos » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:52 pm

huh? of course you can do that, but it is not really in the spirit of the card or is it?
no, it isn't, that is what i mean :)
i'd like to prevent that

Eric, would you mind try to give a new version of this one?

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:00 pm

They Ride Together V: permanent-event
During your organization phase (or immediately after opponent plays a ring), you may place a Black Rider or Black Horse from your sideboard with this card. You may play such cards as if they were in your hand and you may play any number of Ringwraith followers in a turn. There is no limit to the size of your Ringwraith's company. [new part:] If you have all nine Ringwraiths in play, tap this card when the company moves to a [-me_fh-] [-me_bh-] or [-me_rl-]: it may move again using region movement. This card gives 3 MPs when tapped, but only one copy may be tapped per movement/hazard phase. You may start the game with this card in lieu of a minor item.

something like this? I added actually may move again using region movement, the current version doesn't say this, so you'd be forced to return home anyway, which is against the idea of the card. But maybe using region is too strong? I don't think so.
Of course this card can also be played not for mp's but for quickly/easily getting a good RW comp. going, but even then, do you think the Black Horse will be used much, or rather the Black Rider? Because thematically it might be nice, but the whole "after opponent plays a ring" thing seems a bit unnecessary, if you only going to sideboard in one Black Rider...
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Post by marcos » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:48 pm

agree about "immeadiatly after opponent plays a ring", not needed at all...

About tap only one per turn, how are you supposed to get the 9 MPs out if you can only tap 1 per turn...

there is something that doesnt convince me still... I'd like the card to force you to move in order to have the MPs, so skip the word "may" or something... I dont know how to word it...

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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:09 am

huh? tapping it allowes you to move again, so you can tap another one, and another one, so if you move 3 times in one turn you get 9 mp's...what's unclear about that? If you don't move 2nd and 3rd time, you don't get to tap the other TRT's and don't gain mp's, so there's no need to force the movement...

In fact, if you get sent back by Snowstorm or whatever, now there's still one TRT tapped, even though you can't move again, where before you'd have no mp's.
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Post by marcos » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:32 am

sorry i misreaded! I thought it was 1 per turn, but it reads 1 per mov/haz phase... that is cool, though i don't like the site restriction, but that is mainly because i'm a cheeze player :oops:

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:45 am

hehe, to know oneself is very important :D
you can still Deeper Shadow all your Ruins for optimum cheeze. :wink:
And, if you want to move the RW's for some points at a Shadow/Dark, you still can, just you have to move first to other sites to gain mp's from TRT.

can make it non-haven, moving back and forth to Barad-dur would be thematic, but so yawn!
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Post by marcos » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:02 am

non-haven sounds ok, a bit cheeze but not that much :)

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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:21 am

not that much? moving from Minas to Barad to Cirith to Cirith is pretty safe, apart from a Marsh Drake or so, so mp's are guaranteed. What's so bad about moving from Guldur to Bandit to Buhr to Bandit? searching for rings. Well ok you might stumble upon some Dwarves that fetch Gandalf, or some chilled dousers or renegade lieutenants, but otherwise it's not too bad? 8)
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Post by marcos » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:01 am

ok, ok, you convinced me though a chilled elflord can be keyed to morgul ;)

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Post by Nerdmeetsyou » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:11 am

I realy think the whole card would need some redo....

I will think about this issues later and post my new suggestion!

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Post by marcos » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:19 am

why you think that boder?

It is obvious that the card was meant to be played by minions vs hero. So chances of bouncing avatar are nule...
Other than that, it helps you getting a mode card to move your RW soon enough. And if you build a dedicated to get the 9 out it is not that difficult. Try adunaphel, khamul or Witchking for this purpose

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Post by Nerdmeetsyou » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:29 am

But I think creating a recource card where your deck is based on... that only works properly against only hero decks... is not very elegant!

Why should this recource strategy be useless against other minions???
Why make it unneccesarily weaker than it should be....

I was very disapointed as i realized that this kind of deck would be stupid against other ringwraith decks....
so I realy stopped buliding it....
because I mostly play multiplayer.... and the chances that another ringwraith is around then, is quiet common!

So this card would also be doomed to always stay out of a proper tournament strategy.
Because WHY would anybody create a deck that wouldn't work properly if he would pair up against a fellow ringwraith!!!!

why do we have to favour Flavourness over Playability again?
Yeah I know that it has more style if you have out all 9....
but we have to face the truth, that in a lot of games, you would realy be annoyed because your card cannot work at all...
So why disapoint the players by creating a card that annoys them in the long run????

Also (I'm not sure about this concern totaly, because i didn't look it up in the rules), if somebody plays ONE nazul event, and keeps it in play, I even cannot play him as a follower.

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Post by marcos » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:43 am

BoderHamster wrote:But I think creating a recource card where your deck is based on... that only works properly against only hero decks... is not very elegant!

Why should this recource strategy be useless against other minions???
Why make it unneccesarily weaker than it should be....

I was very disapointed as i realized that this kind of deck would be stupid against other ringwraith decks....
so I realy stopped buliding it....
because I mostly play multiplayer.... and the chances that another ringwraith is around then, is quiet common!
So you must think that a Sauron deck is stupid and not very elegant??? As far as i know sauron decks are very strong and can only be used against hero or fallen wizards, and nobody compains about that... This is the same.
BoderHamster wrote:So this card would also be doomed to always stay out of a proper tournament strategy.
Because WHY would anybody create a deck that wouldn't work properly if he would pair up against a fellow ringwraith!!!!

why do we have to favour Flavourness over Playability again?
Yeah I know that it has more style if you have out all 9....
but we have to face the truth, that in a lot of games, you would realy be annoyed because your card cannot work at all...
So why disapoint the players by creating a card that annoys them in the long run????
In a tournament environment you have to build 2 decks, one vs hero and one vs minion. So i don't think that people will be annoyed by this card because they will just think on another deck to play vs minion.
BoderHamster wrote:Also (I'm not sure about this concern totaly, because i didn't look it up in the rules), if somebody plays ONE nazul event, and keeps it in play, I even cannot play him as a follower.
No, such Nazguls gets discarded:
Lidless eye Rulesbook, Part IV, using MELE with METW wrote:RINGWRAITHS AND NAZGÛL
There are several types of cards that you can play a Ringwraith card even if the corresponding manifestation Nazgûl hazard permanent-event is already in play. In this case, the Nazgûl hazard permanent-event is discarded. This also applies in a game with two Ringwraith players using Nazgûl hazard cards from METW.
Last edited by marcos on Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:44 am

Like said before, this card is also quite useful if you don't reach the 9 RW's.
Many Sauron only cards can't be played vs. minion, not even vs. Balrog, this card can, so that is just unavoidable. As much as I like multiplayer, 95% of the games is one on one, so we design for that purpose, designing for multiplayer is totally different and requires other strategies that would also have negative impact on cards for 2 player games. It has nothing to do with elegance.
In a general opponent tournament, you will always have to make a deck vs. hero and one vs. minion anyway, otherwise your hazards will probably suck, so I don't see the problem.

it is a tricky thing but, 9 mp's is also a nice reward :wink: . Trust in those who have played it already Boder...

@Marcos: chilled Lords are unavoidable when leaving/arriving Morgul anyway, so it's better to move from Guldur to Buhr then anyway :wink: You might also bump into Fool's Bane somewhere in Ithilien...
Last edited by Thorsten the Traveller on Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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