(V suggestion) Ghosts

marcos
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(V suggestion) Ghosts

Post by marcos » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:05 pm

I realized that in VC2 i am including a version of fair travel in free domains, but there already exists a virtual version of such card in VC1 set, so this will be the slot to include Ghosts V!

Previous discussion can be found here

all suggested versions:
Ghosts (V)
Hazard creature - (6*) (18/5)
Unique. Manifestation of Army of the deads. May only be played at Dunharrow or Vale of erech. Undead. 2 strikes. Cannot be played against a company with Aragorn II. This card can be played even if Army of the dead is already in play. Detainment against companies with any other dunadan and detainment vs hero companies if any player has army of the dead in play. If return of the King is in play, may also be played keyed to anfalas, lamedon, lebennin, anorien, belfalas or rohan and in sites in this regions. If a hero company defeat this attack, its controlling player receives the marshalling points besides the (*).

Ghosts (V)
Creature - (6) (18/5)
Unique. Undead. Two strikes. May be played at Dunharrow or Vale of Erech. After the attack, each character wounded by Barrow-wight makes a corruption check modified by -3. If Army of the Dead or Return of the King is in play, the attack is detainment against hero companies and may be keyed to Rohan, Lebennin and all adjacent regions, or any site within these regions. Cannot be played against a company with Aragorn II. A minion player receives the MPs for defeating this creature.

Ghosts (V)
Creature/Permanent-event - (6) (18/5)
Unique. Undead. Two strikes. As a creature may be played at Dunharrow or Vale of Erech. If Army of the Dead or Return of the King is in play, the attack is detainment against heroes and may be keyed to Rohan, Lebennin and all adjacent regions, or any site within these regions. Cannot be played against a company with Aragorn II.
If Doors of Night is in play, Ghosts may be played as a permanent-event: any Undead creature may be keyed to Dunharrow or Vale or Erech and all influence attempts in Rohan and Lebennin are modified by -4. Ghosts may opt to attack from the permanent-event state (counting against the hazard limit). A minion player receives the MPs for defeating this creature.

Ghosts (V)
Permanent-event - (6) (18/5)
Unique. Dunharrow and Vale of Erech each gain an automatic-attack: Undead -- 2 strikes at 18/5. Undead creatures may be played at Dunharrow and Vale of Erech and do not count against the hazard limit.
If Return of the King or Army of the Dead is in play, any company moving through Lebennin or Rohan or any adjacent region receives an attack: Undead -- 2 strikes at 18/5 (detainment against heroes).
All attacks from this card are automatically cancelled against a company with Aragorn II.
A minion player receives the MPs for defeating such an attack.

Ghosts (V)
Creature - (6) (18/5)
Unique. Undead. Two strikes. May be played at Dunharrow or Vale of Erech. If Army of the Dead or Return of the King is in play, the attack is detainment against hero companies and may be keyed to Rohan, Lamedon and all adjacent regions, or any site within these regions. If Doors of Night is in play, after an attack from Ghosts any Undead creature may be keyed to Dunharrow or Vale or Erech. Cannot be played against a company with Aragorn II. Remove Army of the dead from play if this creature is defeated. A minion player also receives the MPs for defeating this creature.

Ghosts (V)
Creature - (6) (18/7)
Unique. Manifestation of Army of the Dead (may be played if Army of the Dead is in play). Undead. Two strikes. Cannot be played against a company with Aragorn II. May be played at Dunharrow or Vale of Erech. If Army of the Dead or Return of the King is in play, may also be played keyed to Rohan, Lamedon, and all adjacent regions or sites within these regions, as well as any site with Aragorn II (detainment vs heroes). After the attack, each character wounded by Ghosts makes a corrruption check modified by -3. If Doors of Night is in play, any Undead creature may be played (not counting against the hazard limit) on a company that has faced Ghosts that turn. Remove Army of the Dead from play if this creature is defeated. A minion player also receives the MPs for defeating this creature.

Ghosts (V)
Creature - (6) (18/7)
Unique. Manifestation of Army of the Dead (may be played if Army of the Dead is in play). Undead. Two strikes. Cannot be played against a company with Aragorn II. May be played at Dunharrow or Vale of Erech. If Army of the Dead or Return of the King is in play, may also be played keyed to the same region or any adjacent region to Aragorn II and at sites in those regions (detainment against heroes). After the attack, each character wounded by Ghosts makes a corruption check modified by -3. If Doors of Night is in play, any Undead creature may be played (not counting against the hazard limit) on a company that has faced Ghosts that turn (detainment if attack from Ghosts was detainment). Remove Army of the Dead from play if this creature is defeated. A minion player also receives the MPs for defeating this creature.

Ghosts (V)
Permanent-event - (6) (18/7)
Unique. Manifestation of Army of the Dead (may be played if Army of the Dead is in play). Dunharrow, The Pukel-deeps and Vale of Erech receive an additional automatic attack: Undead –- 2 strikes at 18/7. If Doors of Night is in play, any Undead creature may be played (not counting against the hazard limit) at these sites, and all influence attempts in Rohan and Lamedon are modified by -3 and cannot be done with Muster.
If Army of the Dead or Return of the King is in play, Ghosts may attack from permanent-event state: Undead –2 strikes at 18/7. The attack may be keyed to the same region or any adjacent region to Aragorn II and to sites in those regions (detainment against heroes). Discard after such an attack.
Each character wounded by Ghosts makes a corruption check after the attack modified by -3. All attacks from this card are automatically cancelled on a company containing Aragorn II. Remove Army of the Dead from play if an attack is defeated. A minion player can also receive the MPs for defeating an attack.

Ghosts (V)
Creature - (6) (18/7)
Unique. Manifestation of Army of the Dead (may be played if Army of the Dead is in play). Undead. Two strikes. Cannot be played against a company with Aragorn II. May be played at Dunharrow or Vale of Erech. If Army of the Dead or Return of the King is in play, may also be played keyed to the same region or any adjacent region to Aragorn II and at sites in those regions (detainment against heroes). After the attack, each character wounded by Ghosts makes a corruption check modified by -3. Remove Army of the Dead from play if this creature is defeated. A minion player also receives the MPs for defeating this creature.

Ghosts (V)
Permanent-event - (6) (18/7)
Unique. Manifestation of Army of the Dead (may be played if Army of the Dead is in play). Dunharrow, The Pukel-deeps and Vale of Erech receive an automatic attack: Undead -- 2 strikes at 18/7.
If Army of the Dead or Return of the King is in play, Ghosts may opt to attack from permanent-event state. This attack may be keyed to the same or any adjacent region to Aragorn II or to sites in those regions (detainment against heroes). Discard after such an attack.
Each character wounded by Ghosts makes a corruption check modified by -3 after the attack. All attacks from this card are automatically cancelled on a company containing Aragorn II. Remove Army of the Dead from play if an attack is defeated. A minion player can also receive the MPs for defeating an attack.

Ghosts (V)
Creature - (6) (18/8 )
Unique. Manifestation of Army of the Dead. Undead. 1 strike. Cannot be played against a company with Aragorn II. Playable at Dunharrow or Vale of Erech. If Return of the King is in play keyable to the same region or any adjacent region where Aragorn II is. If Army of the Dead is in play keyable to rohan, lamedon and any adjacent region to those (detainment against heroes). Hazard player may opt to reduce 2 prowess and 1 body to add 1 strike (no minimum). Before the attack, each character with Rohan as home site in the company must make a roll and add his mind, if the result is less than 8 the character returns to site of origin. Remove Army of the Dead from play if this creature is defeated. A minion player also receives the MPs for defeating Ghosts.

Ghosts (V)
Creature - (6) (18/8 )
Unique. Manifestation of Army of the Dead. Undead. 1 strike. Cannot be played against a company with Aragorn II. Playable at Dunharrow or Vale of Erech. If Return of the King is in play: keyable to the same or adjacent region as Aragorn II, and if Army of the Dead is in play: keyable to Rohan, Lamedon or any adjacent region (detainment against heroes). You may reduce prowess by 2 and body by 1 to add a strike (no maximum). Before strikes are assigned, make a roll for each character with a mind: if the result is greater than the character's mind, tap the character. A minion player also receives the MPs for defeating Ghosts.

Ghosts (V)
permanent-event.
Unique. Manifestation of Army of the Dead (playable if Army of the Dead is in play). Each non-wizard non-elf character moving through Rohan or Lamedon must make a cc at -2.
Additionally, any company moving to Dunharrow, Vale of Erech, or Puckel-deeps receives an attack at beginning of movement hazard phase: undead 1@18/8 or 5@10/8 (hazard players choice). Alternatively, if Army of the Dead or Return of the king is in play, any non-hero company at a site or moving through (adjacent) region where Aragorn II is present faces above mentioned attack(s). If either one is in play, all attacks are cancelled against player that controls Aragorn II, and Aragorn II may tap to take this card from discard pile to hand.
or a variant that introduce a new Sleepless malice:
Sleepless Malice
Permanent event.
Playable if army of the dead or Return of the king is in play. All undead attacks receive +1 prowess. Discard after a modified undead auto-attack.
If Return of the King is in play Ghosts V are keyable to the same region or any adjacent region where Aragorn II is, if Army of the Dead is in play they are keyable to rohan, lamedon and any adjacent region to those (detainment against heroes). You may discard this card during any player's end of turn to put any Undead creature to hand from discard. Cannot be duplicated.

Ghosts (V)
Creature - (6) (18/8 )
Unique. Manifestation of Army of the Dead. Undead. 1 strike. Cannot be played against a company with Aragorn II. Playable at Dunharrow or Vale of Erech. Hazard player may opt to reduce 2 prowess and 1 body to add 1 strike (no maximum). Before the attack, each character with Rohan as home site in the company must make a roll and add his mind, if the result is less than 8 the character returns to site of origin. Remove Army of the Dead from play if this creature is defeated. A minion player also receives the MPs for defeating Ghosts.
i'd like to get a definitive version (or at least, as definitve as it can be for terms of playtesting :lol: )

thoughts?

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:05 pm

geez, pick a favourite, not easy.
I would personally opt for:
-creature/ perm; since it's unique, you need an alter
-as perm give -cc to men/dunedain travelling in regions, but minus in influence attempt sounds ok too, or even mind roll.
-may take to hand costing 1 hazard
-as creature playable at Pukel/Vale (not modifiable by cards), and to region where Gorn is if AotD is in play (not against heroes)
-more strikes less prowess, or alot of prowess with ability to allocate some of it to more strikes (Jambo's version iirc, second before last).

Actually, why does this need to be a manifestation of AotD? Currently, there's no way to kill the faction, and most if not all versions say it can be played with AotD in play anyway, so this would only result in the annoying effect that AotD can't be played if opponent drops Ghosts. Can one really defeat undead anyway? for game purpose yeah, but would it be bad if Ghosts get defeated and AotD is still playable?
I know they're supposed to be manifestation, but is it necessary? not for clarity, and it would save space.

I think a separate Sleepless Malice shouldn't be necessary, though the version mentioned isn't bad, it's just another card and slot.
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

marcos
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Post by marcos » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:20 pm

what do you think about any reference to return of the king and/or anduril?
Last edited by marcos on Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nerdmeetsyou
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Post by Nerdmeetsyou » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:01 pm

I'm also not totaly sure if we realy should make an army of the death hazard.... flavour wise!

marcos
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Post by marcos » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:34 pm

thorsten, actually i think i agree with you. there is no need to make it a manifestation of army, after all, knigths of the prince/ beorning toll/ gondorian rangers/ horse lords/ arthadan rangers are not manifestations of his factions counterparts...

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Nerdmeetsyou
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Post by Nerdmeetsyou » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:45 pm

I mainly believe Undeads also have some problems with their keyablity, maybe we rather should solve that problem???

marcos
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Post by marcos » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:50 pm

undeads are VERY easily keyable... just look at chill douser, stirring bones, wisp of pale sheen, without mention Shadows out of dark/ sleepless malice and the possiblity to turn wildernesses to shadow lands with morgul night/ chocking shadows or use choking shadows to turn ruins into shadow holds, etc... Even nature's revenge or gloom can help by turning border holds into ruins and make some of them playable...
Oh and there is also Angmar arises/ Into darkness bind them/ Reaching shadow
Do you really think they need more help to be played?

Let's try to keep the discussion about the main topic wich is Ghosts V

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Nerdmeetsyou
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Post by Nerdmeetsyou » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:53 pm

oh i never played them...or played against htem... so I thought that might be the problem why...*G*

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Thorsten the Traveller
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Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:39 am

Boder, you really have to start playing some games, if you've never faced undeads before...

Yes RotK or Anduril would be thematic, but requiring Gorn and AotD is already sufficiently difficult, so minions don't have to be too scared to be whipped by this card. Also you can assume that if Aragorn has influenced the faction, they are convinced of his royal claims, so RotK or Anduril or Palantir isn't necessary, and the card is rather cramped already, I'd rather see a strike/prowess allocation clause on it than extra playability clause.
Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.

marcos
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Post by marcos » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:58 pm

how to represent the "scary factor" ???

-corruption checks??
-tap??
-return to home site (similar to seized by terror)??
-split from the company and have a lone mov/haz phase (similar to left behind)??

i'm thinking on making it similar to shelob (attack from Perm event state and so)

Leon
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Post by Leon » Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:00 pm

I see this card as a limited, but very strong hazard that will be in the sideboard of the right decks.

Aside from effects for Dunharrow, Pukel-Deeps and Vale of Erech the permanent event doesn't need to have much influence on the game in my opinion. This to keep it close to the books, though I am not the expert there.

The exception to this is of course the clause where Aragorn has the Army and uses it to attack an opponent. Similar to Shelob is gamewise probably easiest.

An option is also to have it not as an attack, but as each character faces one strike at ..., like Cruel Caradhras etc. This is a whole lot harder to cancel.

Also I agree with Torsten and Marcos about the manifestation part, similar to Thranduils Fold/Wood-Elves etc.

marcos
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Post by marcos » Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:06 pm

you mean making them an event rather than a creature/ event?

Leon
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Post by Leon » Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:11 pm

Then it would indeed be only an event. Perhaps not such a good option after all. But I think it is time to choose something and start playtesting it. Good luck, because I do not have time to play myself.

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Nerdmeetsyou
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Post by Nerdmeetsyou » Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:15 pm

all this versions do confuse me a little...

what is the main purpose?
and what are the ones still in consideration?

marcos
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Post by marcos » Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:16 pm

the main purpose is to make a fusion of all of them into one cooler version :)

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