Charter Rewrite - Part Two

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Shapeshifter
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Re: Charter Rewrite - part two

Post by Shapeshifter » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:40 am

I think Eric made some very good suggestions. From my point of view we should add all of this to the Charter.
marcos wrote:even the COE rules&errata board could work for this, just need to give permisions to this subforum to the NetRep team (or maybe the team is allowed already?)
This sounds like an excellent suggestion - I agree.

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Re: Charter Rewrite - part two

Post by thorondor » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:40 am

thats indeed a good suggestion.
imo we need a place where errata discussions take place and both COE and Netrep (+team) are equally present.
however, imo its the Netrep (team) in the first place that decides upon how errata are done.

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Re: Charter Rewrite - part two

Post by marcos » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:25 pm

agree with wolfgang

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Re: Charter Rewrite - part two

Post by thorondor » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:50 am

there is consensus about 1,2 and 4.
i think there is also a general consensus that any errata-debates need 3 parties involved: NetRep(team),COE and community.
- the role of the community is discussed and already decided upon in that other thread (option C).
- NetRep(team) and COE need a common place where the process of making errata happens. while the NetRep(team) is in the lead of the process as rules experts, the confirmation of both parties is needed.

is this something all of us can agree with??

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Re: Charter Rewrite - part two

Post by marcos » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:20 pm

i agree

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Re: Charter Rewrite - part two

Post by Jose-san » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:06 pm

Aye

Vastor Peredhil
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Re: Charter Rewrite - part two

Post by Vastor Peredhil » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:36 pm

I can agree with it, if the CoE gets reading access for the Netrep team, I do not want to get involved in rules discussion but I like to read them. . .

yours Nicolai

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Re: Charter Rewrite - part two

Post by marcos » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:33 pm

Vastor Peredhil wrote:I can agree with it, if the CoE gets reading access for the Netrep team, I do not want to get involved in rules discussion but I like to read them. . .

yours Nicolai
once again i must clarify:
- for rules discussions there is Rules questions board
- for issuing errata, there is (or will be) a CoE+NetRep board only
- for discussing about ruling there is NetRep board (which is NetRep only for better output)

this 3 are separate matters, as far as i know we are voting regarding the Errata stuff. Or am i missing something?

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Re: Charter Rewrite - part two

Post by Shapeshifter » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:18 pm

Aye

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Re: Charter Rewrite - part two

Post by Vastor Peredhil » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:32 pm

true we are, and I agree with Eric's ideas, still I see no reason for us to be able to read the Netrep discussion forum?

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Re: Charter Rewrite - part two

Post by marcos » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:43 pm

There was a discussion about that already, somewhere else. But i can't find exactly where. In any case that should be discussed with Mikko in another topic, i know he made it so the NetRep (team) could work better.

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Re: Charter Rewrite - part two

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:36 pm

obviously the erratum section should allow both NetRep and CoE both reading and posting access, and it should not coincide with the normal NetRep rules section. obviously I never assumed otherwise :wink:
Wether we place it at the Rules or at the CoE section does not matter much to me.

but what does it matter if people read the discussion and talk about it? let them, that's called democracy, they can't post (and therefore won't directly disturb the process), just pm the crap out of you or start discussions somewhere else, that's life.

As I said, the CoE decides for the need of an erratum, proposes the erratum, and validates it. Thus why should the NetRep formulate it? makes no sense. On the other hand, we'll need their rules expertise, so just make it CoE and NetRep Team joint effort.

btw. I thought non-voting CoE members, such as NetRep, could also post here? so if Mikko can't, that's an oversight.
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Re: Charter Rewrite - part two

Post by thorondor » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:51 pm

Thorsten the Traveller wrote: btw. I thought non-voting CoE members, such as NetRep, could also post here? so if Mikko can't, that's an oversight.
i had to change it after we got to kow that each, who is able to write in the forum, may also take part in polls. its not possible to differ.
as soon as we do not have a specific sub forum for polls exclusively, i would like to keep it that way.
with the start of the new COE session i will restructure the fourm and permissions.

@eric: ready to update the COE charter draft? as soon as it is done i will send out a message, showin git to the public and asking for new candidates for the next session.

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Re: Charter Rewrite - part two

Post by Thorsten the Traveller » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:05 am

couple of changes based on a number of issues:

- who has a right to vote for CoE? membership of CoE and forum membership do not coincide. Previously the Silent-tower mailinglist was used for CoE election, to make things equal with voting for the erratum proces I have followed Ben in making this forum membership rather. Should any non-member from the Silent-tower list care to vote, I doub he'd be excluded though (if we'd even find out, as voting is per mail usually).

- as per Ben's suggestion the Chair handles the election process. It's not very democratically sound, but ok, saves the hassle of appointing someone.

- former charter and Ben's proposal had the "each candidate must receive 1 percent of votes" line, but as far as I can remember, all CoE elections have required all constituents to list their favourite 8 candidates (instead of vote for 1 candidate). The chances that a candidate would be among the favourite 8 without scoring at least 1 percent are thus approaching zero.

- fearing that the turnout number of votes for errata proces will be very low, I deemed it wise to allow more room for the dissentient. Imagine the situation where of the possible 300 votes only 30 are cast, and of them 20 are negative, which is 7 percent of the electorate, so still the proposal would stand. Not likely of course, and we assume the silent majority agrees, but it would still send the wrong signal. So, either 1/3 of the electorate or a majority of the votes must be nay to vote out the proposal. Still this is better/less conservative than 2/3 of votes required yea.


please feel free to offer suggestions and/or corrections, improve the language etc. (as I'm not a lawyer nor native English speaker. Well, it should be a readable document, so better no lawyer/formal talk).
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Council of Elrond Charter 2011.doc
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Last edited by Thorsten the Traveller on Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Charter Rewrite - part two

Post by thorondor » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:04 pm

agree on everything except one:
Thorsten the Traveller wrote: - as per Ben's suggestion the Chair handles the election process. It's not very democratically sound, but ok, saves the hassle of appointing someone.
the hassle is not so big, and there are several that are willing to act as registrar (like josh hunholz or steffen lutter did in the past).

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